[hoopmama]

Hi all.

I'm new to this, sort of. My daughter was showing many symptoms of diabetes (HUGE family history, so I recognized it), so we started testing. I've been keeping her numbers in an Excel file until we visit the pediatric endocrinologist in a couple of months. Meanwhile, wondering about your opinions.

Fasting average is 100.
1 hour post-meal average is 200.
2 hour post-meal average is 160.

She gets blurred vision over 160, often after meals. Headaches, leg pain, night sweats, always hungry and eats like she has a hollow leg but rail thin. Over 180 and she feels clammy and nauseated. We've learned she can't eat pretzels, her glucose shoots over 200 every time she has them.

She is 8 and eats probably 75% "whole foods" and organic diet. No soda. No fast food. No trans fat. We cook 99% of what we eat. Lots of fruits and veggies and water. She's very active, otherwise healthy. I'm kinda nuts about what goes into our bodies with my family history of diabetes and heart disease, early onset.

What can I do for her when her glucose gets to the 200 range and she starts feeling ill? Are there natural ways to lower it?

Thanks in advance.

 

[Guest]

Hi Hoopmama

Your daughter is probably a T1 diabetic, but the pediatric endocrinologist will let you know about that when you see her (or him). I'm a T2, but as I am managing my diabetes without any medication, how I manage it might be of some help to you.

For a start, I replaced all the high-carbohydrate foods with fat/protein. This means no potatoes, pasta, cereal, bread, noodles, biscuits (cookies), corn, sugar or fruit (apart from berries). I eat plenty of fish (especially oily fish such as salmon and sardines), meat of all sorts with any fat left on, eggs and cheese. I enjoy plenty of salads, preferring cos (romaine) lettuce as a base and including some tomatoes but no root vegetables such as carrots and beetroot. I also eat broccoli, asparagus and cauliflower. Cooking is done with coconut oil or butter and I use butter or a sauce made with the pan juices and double (heavy) cream over the steamed vegies. Although I exercise regularly, I am never hungry for snacks between meals. The fat/protein takes much longer to digest than carbs, so I don't get hungry anywhere near as quickly. Your daughter is growing and probably much more active than I am, so she could need some snacks. Almonds and walnuts make great snacks and don't raise blood glucose.

My blood sugar varies between 4.6 (fasting or after lunch) and 6.2 (one hour after breakfast). That's 83 and 112 if you're in the US.

For recipe ideas, check out the recipe section here, and to see what forum members eat for meals, check the sticky threads called 'What did you eat for (dinner/breakfast/lunch).

 

[Shanny]

Yes, there are natural ways to lower it, and we told you about them in your previous thread - here and here. You'll have to let go of the belief that whole grains, milk & fruit are good for her. Those are the things that are sending her way too high. Not saying they aren't part of a healthy diet - they just aren't part of HER healthy diet anymore, if it turns out she's diabetic.

Stay with the organic, of course, but lose the grains of all kinds - wheat, corn, oats, rice - and anything MADE with grains, even whole grains. This is serious, and these are the worst offenders for diabetics. If she's a big milk drinker, lose the milk too - it's loaded with lactose.

Keep the high-fiber vegetables, and for fruits she could have avocado, eggplant or possibly tomato, if it doesn't spike her. If berries don't spike her, try raspberries, blackberries, blueberries - even strawberries. Pour a little heavy cream on them to get used to using fats. If she's accustomed to milk, use cream. Include as much natural fat in her diet as you can - this will provide the energy that she's been getting from carbs - butter on the hot veggies, etc. Heavy cream, full fat sour cream, full fat mayo, full fat yogurt. These are good for diabetics, and I agree with Ann that she's prob'ly a type 1. How does she feel about tuna salad? It's ideal, made with chopped hard cooked egg & full fat mayo - sugar-free relish if you can get it (I find it at Kroger). Salmon patties are good too . . . just try to work around foods she likes that are high-fat & low-carb.

edit: I should also assure you that a high fat diet will NOT increase risks of cardiovascular disease. There are mountains of evidence from years back which underscore the fallacy in the "bad fats" propaganda. Please don't be afraid of using natural fats, both saturated & unsaturated - they are good healthy food for everyone, and especially for people with diabetes.

Good luck to you & your young lady.

 

[hoopmama]

Thank you, AnnC. That's a lot of what I have been doing, though I will admit it is difficult to just start denying a child all of her favorite things. She's handling it well. Strangely, pasta doesn't seem to affect her terribly. Pretzels? Those are a mess.

I have a general idea how to avoid major spikes, but I'm curious if there is a natural way to lower a high level once it's already up.

And thanks for the link back to my previous question, Shanny. I realize the internet leaves room for interpretation, and it's easy to misinterpret intentions, but the tone in your reply on this thread came across as abrasive at best. If you have a problem with something I post, please feel free not to reply.

 

[hoopmama]

Also, bad fats do cause heart disease. It's not propaganda, it's science. Diabetics are at an increased risk of cardiovascular disease, so a cautious balance needs to be found. It's not easy.

 

[smorgan]

Your first sentence is untrue. It is only "junk" science which "proved" that and it has been amply debunked. Your second sentence is true, but only if blood sugars are out of control (anything over 140), not simply by virtue of being "diabetic".

Also, bad fats do cause heart disease. It's not propaganda, it's science. Diabetics are at an increased risk of cardiovascular disease, so a cautious balance needs to be found. It's not easy.

 

[Shanny]

Excuse me if it came off as abrasive, it was meant to be informative. We often have people who come and post their problems, and many of us make carefully considered responses, only to have the same people come back later starting all over at the beginning, either having forgotten they've already been here, or perhaps they think we don't pay enough attention to remember them from before. Part of the problem is that a great many forums use the vBulletin format, so we all look alike. And when this happens, I try to remind them that we're familiar with their situation and have made suggestions already. That way we don't spend valuable time slogging through territory we've already covered. Because many of us frequent several diabetes sites, we become aware that often a troubled person will hit many forums at once and may easily get lost in the deluge of messages they receive. These are the reasons why you were directed to your previous thread. None of them may apply to you, but now you know why it was presented the way it was.

I also understand that you may be stressed a little more than usual, so I'm considering that as part of your sensitivity. Forgive me for rubbing you the wrong way.

Now as to your seemingly abrasive response about the risk of high fat diets on CVD, I will ask other members to explain and cite their sources, since you would rather I not respond. But the science of which you speak has been disproven, and I think you would be wise on your daughter's account, to do the research and find the truth of the matter. If you use PubMed or Google Scholar or other reliable search sites, look for studies regarding any association between cholesterol and coronary heart disease. JAMA (Journal of the American Medical Association), AJCN (American Journal of Clinical Nutrition), and the Lancet are also reputable resources. Whatever you find, you can take THIS to the bank: the lipids hypothesis is dead.

 

[hoopmama]

Your first sentence is untrue. It is only "junk" science which "proved" that and it has been amply debunked. Your second sentence is true, but only if blood sugars are out of control (anything over 140), not simply by virtue of being "diabetic".

I would go as far as to say it depends on the chemistry of a person most of all.

My family is full of type 1s with levels rarely out of the 300+ range. I had no idea that keeping it under 140 on a regular basis even happened for people with diabetes - even with insulin. I don't know much about this, other than the symptoms someone might have, and the fact that high and low are both bad.

 

[hoopmama]

Sorry, Shanny. Yes, I am probably a bit more sensitive than usual. The more I read, the more stressed I get. My daughter is throwing 200+ readings daily in spite of our best efforts. All of this is a bit overwhelming and I suppose I feel a bit helpless. At first, I was like, okay - we'll just cut out the sugar, make sure she eats regularly, and things will improve. But they didn't. I'm just worried. Stressed. Insulin scares the heck out of me and I'm praying there's either a way to get comfortable with that idea or the endocrinologist will have more optimistic news for us. I'm probably over-thinking all of this, probably over-worrying and putting the cart before the horse, but *all* of the type 1s in my family have been through a near-death/lengthy hospital admission experience with this, and it freaks me out to think my daughter might be heading down that path.

Ugh. Sorry to unload. But yes, I'm on edge. Please take no offense to my snappy reply.

 

[Shanny]

Let me add a brief p.s., and then I'll let you alone.

As regards lowering an already high level, about the only natural approach I can think of is to drink lots of water and get moving. Adults often use moderate exercise, but for a child who's already very active, it don't see this as being appropriate. Prevention is the far better route.

 

[Shanny]

all of the type 1s in my family have been through a near-death/lengthy hospital admission experience with this, and it freaks me out to think my daughter might be heading down that path.

I think we're beginning to understand one another, so let me just say this: your daughter is not headed down that path. Whatever has happened in your family is not what will happen to your daughter. My own grandniece was diagnosed before she was a year old and she is approaching her 13th birthday in April. She has worn out one pump & is years into wearing out her second one; she does all her own testing, changes out her sites by herself, and handles the pump entries like a pro. She was much younger than your daughter when she was fitted for the pump. She is a healthy happy youngster with a mouth that gets her in trouble, but her diabetes does not compromise her health or her life.

Whatever the endo says, both of you will survive and thrive. I promise. Make yourself at home here and we'll see you through it.

 

[skb]

So far as the fats cause CVD part of the thread is concerned, I'd recommend that you do a YouTube search for Gary Taubes and listen to his lectures. There will be tons of such similar videos open up from there.

From hands on experience, I can tell you that almost all of us have dropped our cholesterol levels after going LCHF.

 

[jwags]

Welcome to DF. First of all I would try to get an appointment sooner. Your daughter definitely has some problem with her endocrine system that needs to be addressed. If she is a Type 1 she will need insulin. Those numbers you posted are very high for a non diabetic. I am a diabetic and get upset if my bg goes above 125. The average bg for a non diabetic is 83. As far as diet, I ate very similar to your daughter before diabetes. Everything I ate was orgainic and prepared at home. I ate lots of veggies, grains, nuts, flaxseed and I ate no fat ( eggs, cheese or meat). So a low fat diet did not protect me from diabetes. Also when dx'd after eating no fat my cholesterol was through the roof. I started eating meat, eggs and cheese and my cholesterol came down. We do have an explosion of heart problems in this country that are blamed on fat. No one ever looks at the carbs in people diets.

If your daughter's pancreas is not making enough insulin to keep her bgs under 100 she will need injected insulin. There is no diet or exercise that will replace insulin. By giving up grains, rice, pasta and cereals she may need less insulin but she will still need it. Also you mentioned good bgs with pasta. Pasta digests slowly and many of us see huge spikes at 3 and 4 hours.

 

[Humhum]

Shanny was not abrasive..... Just telling it like it is since you asked. This is a high fat low carb forum. There are other forums that might agree with your ideas better. We have all experienced the outcome of hf/Locab. I really do med fat lo carb because of pancreatitis problems. Richard can probably really help you when he pops on. The main thing is to get your daughter's numbers down and low carb will do it but will need the fat for energy.

 

[hoopmama]

Thanks, everyone. I do sicnerely appreciate any advice I can get. The more I read, the more I realize how out of line my daughter's numbers are. And I guess I have to accept this. So frustrating and scary, though.

Shanny, thank you. Your story about your grand-niece does comfort me. Thankfully, my daughter is very go-with-the-flow about things, never really complains about anything and always managed to find the silver lining. I kind of envy that I'm putting on a very brave face for her, but I will admit here that I'm scared.

 

[WV Mom]

I'm putting on a very brave face for her, but I will admit here that I'm scared.

We're mommies. Scared is what we do. And it's not a bad thing entirely, because it motivates us to do exactly what you're doing: reading, learning, and finding answers to help our little ones. With your help, your daughter is going to live a long, full, happy life, free from health complications. She's lucky to have you. (((((hugs)))))

 

[hoopmama]

We're mommies. Scared is what we do. And it's not a bad thing entirely, because it motivates us to do exactly what you're doing: reading, learning, and finding answers to help our little ones. With your help, your daughter is going to live a long, full, happy life, free from health complications. She's lucky to have you. (((((hugs)))))

Thanks, WV Mom

 

[Strawberry]

We're mommies. Scared is what we do. And it's not a bad thing entirely, because it motivates us to do exactly what you're doing: reading, learning, and finding answers to help our little ones. With your help, your daughter is going to live a long, full, happy life, free from health complications. She's lucky to have you. (((((hugs)))))

What a beautiful thought WV Mom. Whilst I was raising my two sons (now grown) I always found myself in a state of worry. My husband's Grandfather who immigrated from Yugoslavia said something quite similar. His words were "Mother is Mother", "that is what they do".

Hoopmama ~ Your daughter is very fortunate to have such a caring Mother. Here is wishing you the courage and strength to find the answers you are seeking. (((Hugs)))

 

[timmy]

Your little girl needs to get some insulin into her to cover the carb meals she is eating. Dont be afraid of insulin, our bodies produce it (well, used to!) naturally anyway, so dont think of this as the end of the world. Left alone with numbers that high is where the danger lies.
Im a bit of a black sheep in this forum. I eat carbs and will inject accordingly. But first things first- see the doc/endo, she is no doubt type 1 imo, get some meds (insulin) and test/chart/document the carbs she eats and corrosponding insulin ration. For example, can she have 30gms of pretzels (however many that is, you would need to look it up) and have 1 bolus dose and remain within a good bs number? A lot of trial and error with insulin unfortunately, but it is only scary if you want it to be. Just remember we naturally produce insulin, so dont be afraid of it.
As for bringing her numbers down naturally, exercise is your friend, but as mentioned this wont replace insulin therapy. She cant run 5 miles after ingesting every time she eats 5 biscuits if you know what i mean. You will be ok with this, you have experience with he disease. YOu will just have to know foods/carbs etc very well now and all that does is take time. All i can say is test, test and test and learn what food does what to her, how much etc as well as how much fast acting insulin has been taken with the carbs and document it.

 

[diabetes86]

Ammm Insulin is a natural hormone that she does not have enough of, or is not working well.
I would Run to the MD and get her checked for T1 and T2. Then get her on insulin. it is a natural part of normal bodies that your daughter does not have enough of.

Insulin will lower her BG.

Pasta tends to spike later than other foods.

her BG is too hi she IS incurring damage to her body and with 60 or 70 years left in her life it is time to get her BG down now.

See an endocrinologist and do what needs to be done, whether its natural or not. She is heading for natural complications that will be with her for the rest of her life.

Just my 2 cents worth, from someone with complications.