[Judo64]

NayNay -

Read my post. Second, you may want to take an education program to help manage your diabetes. All I can say is that for women for each meal including any snacks afterwards should only take as follows:

Middle-aged or older, needs to lose weight - 1200-1400 calories with 135 - 150 grams of carbs (150/3 meals = 50g.)

Younger, inactive - 1500 - 1700 calories with 165 - 180 grams of carbs (180/3 meals = 60g.)

Younger, active - 1800 - 2000 calories with 195 - 225 grams of carbs (225/3 meals = 75g.)

This should help you get started to monitor your carbs. That includes information that states there are zero sugars, carbs converts to sugar.

I do not believe in artificial sweetners. I drink regular tea without any sugar. It took a week to get used to not adding sugar and I have been addicted without a need for sugar. I stopped drinking sodas all together years ago. Once in a great while, I will drink a soda only to realize how sweet it is especially Dr. Pepper, Pepsi, or Coke. Grin.

Give yourself time after about a month and things will appear to be normal again with less glucose testing. It is OK to talk to others about your diabetes, as it is your way of coping and looking for acceptance.

I wish you all the best of luck to good health and maintaining your diabetes.

Have a pleasant day/night.
Donald

I am beginning to become so overloaded with information regarding sugar, sugar substitutes, sugar additives, what's okay to use, what's not okay to use... HELP!
I have seen many here mention maltodextrin. From what I researched and have read, maltodextrin is derived from sugar? It is actually found in starches, and extracted from the starch? So, is it a carbohydrate or not? Does it affect blood sugar numbers?
I am feeling so overwhelmed tonight. I'm rather down on myself right now because my numbers have been jumping around for no known reason and I indulged in some bad carbs tonight because I was craving carbs. I can usually subdue that particular demon, but I just gave in to it tonight. I think my stress level is up right now as well. I just really feel like crying. I noticed my bg's are going up from eating nuts such as cashews, walnuts, pecans. These are supposed to be good for you right? Low carb? High fat?
I currently use Equal because my system does not deal with Splenda or any type of sugar alcohol. It makes me violently ill. I cannot use anything that contains Splenda or sugar alcohols. So, many of the sugar free syrups and stuff people here use to bake with or make delicious foods with I cannot use. It seems there is no safe alternative for me. I just don't know what to do.
I know this is a pity party but I just can't help it. I'm reading all these success stories and I feel like such a failure. I feel like I'm never going to get to good control ever. I so happy for all those that have or are getting such wonderful results, but I want to be there with them. I want to celebrate as well! I feel like I am becoming obsessive with testing, and with diabetes in general. I swear it is all I think about anymore, and I feel like that is all I talk about (not just here on the forum, but like every conversation I have with people). I don't want diabetes to control or take over my whole life.
What say you oh wise people of the forum? What ideas might you offer, or suggestions? I'm really very depressed tonight. out:

 

[moon]

Donald - where are you coming up with the formula you gave in your post? It's suggesting that we are all alike, which actual experience says isn't true. There may be some people who fit neatly into one of your categories, but my my best guess is that more people don't than do.

For myself, I cannot eat all the carbs you list there. You say the min. carbs I should have is 135, and I can tell you my diabetes would not be in control if I ate all those carbs. I'm a T2 diabetic and my insulin resistance is significant.

Is there a source for this specific list?

 

[JT.]

Renee, I feel for you when you are frustrating about the BG result. I know how you feel and we all get that sometimes.

I have sent you a long msg in your inbox and let me know what you think.

I know you been reading my blood work results and I am sorry to make you feel this way. You are getting there Girl and DO NO GIVE UP on what you are doing!!

A few days of BG spike does not show much in a 3 months HBA1C test. As long it does not spike every day for 3 months HAHAHA...


Our blood cells takes around 3 months to die and change to new blood cells and so a week or 2 does not makes big difference and I know it is going winter soon in USA and you might eat or feel hungry more often.

So don’t beat yourself up OK???

To me you and everyone are doing pretty well compare to those patients I have seen in hospital on our Diabetes tour last week. ALOT OF THEM takes more than 15 to 20 pills a DAY just to control their high blood, cholesterol and BG...

Ask yourself, do you take over 15 to 20 pills a day??

And some of them even have their leg amputated and heart disease because they don't look after their diabetes and health. Some of them are pretty young like 42 to 48 yrs. old without a leg or toe.


So you are doing very well if you are posting here and try to manage your diabetes compare to a lot of other people out there.. Give yourself a break!! Don’t beat yourself up!!


Cheers Girl and you know you can do it It takes Time but you will get there!!

 

[Shanny]

These figures are way out of line for most people wishing to control their blood sugar levels. They are more commensurate with the foolish propaganda promoted by the ADA, and most of us have discovered it's a complete failure. The dietitians/nutritionists/certified educators are apparently sworn to uphold the edicts of the ADA, but that doesn't make it right. If their jobs depend on it, what are they to do? But these examples advise too many carbs and not enough calories to do any good.

Read my post. Second, you may want to take an education program to help manage your diabetes. All I can say is that for women for each meal including any snacks afterwards should only take as follows:

Middle-aged or older, needs to lose weight - 1200-1400 calories with 135 - 150 grams of carbs (150/3 meals = 50g.)

Younger, inactive - 1500 - 1700 calories with 165 - 180 grams of carbs (180/3 meals = 60g.)

Younger, active - 1800 - 2000 calories with 195 - 225 grams of carbs (225/3 meals = 75g.)

This should help you get started to monitor your carbs. That includes information that states there are zero sugars, carbs converts to sugar.

 

[optimist]

Optimist, you obviously like to cook! I tried the mug cake you posted and it is really good. Sometimes I come home from work and make one if I am craving something sweet. I use the aspartame in that, and it works okay. What is Locust bean gum? I've never heard of that. Also, is sukrin equivalent to saccharin? If not, what is sukrin as well. I would be willing to try the swiss roll. Sounds delicious. I have got to find a store around where I live to buy some of the stuff required for low carb cooking and/or baking such as Almond Flour and other things. The only place I know of right now is east of where I live, and I'm not really familiar with the east side. I'm a west sider, and in Cleveland, Ohio we have this whole east side/west side division. I have always lived on the west side, so I only know how to get to work (east side) and back home It's a scary thing when you are in nomad land...and that is what the east side is for me
I totally agree with your comment though that I will not let the diabetes thing stop me from eating good.

In Norway we call it Johannesbrødkjernemel or just JBKM, it is a glutenfree thickener, and when I googled for translation to english it came up with Locust bean gum....
This link says maybe a little more?
johannesbrødkjernemel > locust bean gum

Sukrin is Functional Foods: Sukrin
but you can use the one you prefere (Splenda, etc.). I have actually used 20 gram of real sugar sometimes when I bake this roll. Even if I use real sugar one piece of cake is only 5-6 carbohydrates.
I live in the mountains, so I buy most of the thing I need from internet....
And yes, I love to cook.
My family loves to eat and I loves to cook, so we are a really good match!

 

[naynay]

Judo64:

Let me clarify a few things here. First, I am certainly not new to the diabetes world. I have been diabetic since 1994 after my second child was born. My diabetes actually began with gestational diabetes, and after the second child, it did not go away. I ignored it for quite a while; did not take drugs for it, nor did I test my bg's at all. I had enough of that when I was pregnant. My Mom was a Type 2 diabetic, and she was a carbaholic. With that said, I unfortunately inherited all of my Mom's traits and genes. She also had difficulties with cholesterol, triglycerides, and diabetes. My Mom did not take care of herself the way she was told to, and because of this she died of end stage renal failure at the age of 66. When that happened, it of course scared me enough to go to an endocrinologist so I could address my issues with diabetes (which to this point was mild) and other lipid problems. I was instantly put on oral meds and insulin. The insulin messed me up worse than I started out at, so I quit the insulin and stayed with oral meds...This was 6 years ago. The rest of the story is still a work in progress, but needless to say I have been through all the dieticians, nutritionists, endo doctors, internal med doctors, holistic doctors, etc. I have done plenty of research, gone with the ADA recommendations, tried every supplement out there that touts it will improve blood sugar control, tried the carb/protein/fat combo diets, exercised so much that I ended up injuring my muscles.
Judo, I know your intentions are well meant, however, if you really think eating 50 grams of carbs per meal, 3 times a day, you must be following ADA. I've been there done that and it does not work. All that accomplished for me was causing my diabetes and blood sugar control to go way out there. I have had much better success with LC/HF. Many professionals will tell you that the ADA recommendations don't do anything other than keep a diabetic a diabetic. Actually increases their numbers, and can possibly lead to an earlier death.
With all this said, please other posters and friends, don't allow someone who is so misguided and believing in the "system" to upset you and cause harsh words. I know how it feels, and Judo64, this may just possibly work for you. But the others here are right; we are all different and our bodies all react differently to different types of food. What spikes me may be okay for another and vice-versa.
I ask questions, and get confused sometimes because I research a little too much and sometimes you just get information overload. So, that is why I post questions to my fellow diabetics here for their take on it. I have found such wonderful responses to my questions, and things that make me better informed about diabetes.
Okay...let's all agree that sometimes we will disagree. Hugs and Kisses to all...and I do mean all! Whether we agree with you or not!

 

[naynay]

Renee, I feel for you when you are frustrating about the BG result. I know how you feel and we all get that sometimes.


I know you been reading my blood work results and I am sorry to make you feel this way. You are getting there Girl and DO NO GIVE UP on what you are doing!

JT:

Please don't get me wrong...I am thrilled for you....your blood work results did not make me feel bad...just a bit jealous! You are doing so good, I would not want my words to hurt you at all! You keep doing what you are doing because seeing others succeed continues to give me hope that I will experience this too. I will never give up...just sometimes I get down on myself and self-pity. I get over it....I know I am trying as much as I can, and I know I will find my way. How can I not with all these great souls here? Hugs!

 

[Patdart]

Renee, I live in the boondocks too, and I order most of my low carb food from Netrition.com and they only charge $4.95 or so for shipping no matter how much you order, so I keep a running list of needs and order a large order now and then. It also has the side effect of keeping me from running around from store to store which ends up saving me gas money!

 

[naynay]

Renee, I live in the boondocks too, and I order most of my low carb food from Netrition.com and they only charge $4.95 or so for shipping no matter how much you order, so I keep a running list of needs and order a large order now and then. It also has the side effect of keeping me from running around from store to store which ends up saving me gas money!

I don't live in the boondocks Patdart, but most of the health food stores are not very close to me. Us west siders must be a most unhealthy bunch I guess
I do alot of online shopping, so I think perhaps this will be the best way for me to obtain alot of the ingredients I need to make some of the delicious looking recipes I've seen on the forum. I will check out Netrition.com. Thanks for the heads-up!

 

[Patdart]

I don't live in the boondocks Patdart, but most of the health food stores are not very close to me. Us west siders must be a most unhealthy bunch I guess

I knew you didn't live in the boondocks, but in my opinion, running around a large city is much the same. Also, I've found I have to end up ordering a lot of the things I need anyway, so this is easier. The UPS man ends up doing the hauling of the large box!

 

[naynay]

I knew you didn't live in the boondocks, but in my opinion, running around a large city is much the same. Also, I've found I have to end up ordering a lot of the things I need anyway, so this is easier. The UPS man ends up doing the hauling of the large box!

Oh well I certainly like that idea (UPS man that is). And, if the UPS man happens to be quite handsome and muscular, well then it just adds to the mailorder delivery positives doesn't it!

And yes I agree, running around a large city is much the same as living in the boondocks. When you don't know that side of town, many streets are one ways and different than my side of town. I get confused and scared sometimes. I don't like having horns blown at me, and I hate to have to turn around and around to find something, or try to figure out how to get over to where it is when you can't go the simplest way (due to one way streets!).

But, thanks for the suggestions.

 

[Judo64]

Greetings Moon -

The information source "How Many Carbs are Right for YOU?" came from the "Diabetes Self-Management Education program, which I have the copy in my binder. You posed an interesting perception of your view, which I respect of anyone who questions the validity of any information. You can google for the keyword and I found one that explains at Wellness Alternatives of St. Louis Website.

We all know that we are our own individual person, already complex, that it is hard to determine what works for everyone. Therefore, it is easier for the healthcare provider to provide a "one-size-fits-all" formula that we can apply to make any necessary adjustments that works for us on an individual basis.

Does that mean that my information is accurate that should work for each individual? No. It is similar to having an odometer and a fuel gauge in your vehicle as an analogy. Some people speed differently and add fuel at different points and we know the consequences of our decision-making process whereas a diabetic who is new to the program has to learn of the consequences over time.

People who were recently diagnosed as diabetic, as I was, are already overwhelmed and may not get all the necessary information from the doctor as to where to go to get information/facts. It took a month before I was able to take a class while in the meantime, I did my own research, which this forum helped me get started. Some people whom I talked to about my experience had no idea about carbohydrates and the type of foods that we eat especially in serving size. The research helped me realized that eating at fast food restaurants are not as healthy especially in the amount of carbs and sodium.

I replied for the female aspect and the 135 grams minimum to 150 grams maximum is for middle-aged or older who needs to lose weight with 1200 - 1400 calories. I should have listed for the men, which I will be glad to add to this post. My apologies.

For Men:
Middle-aged or older who needs to lose weight with 1500 - 1700 calories with the 165 grams minimum to 180 grams maximum (180/3 meals = 60 g.)

Younger, active, who needs to lose weight with 1800 - 2000 calories with the 195 grams minimum to 225 grams maximum (225/3 meals = 75 g.)

Younger, VERY active with 2000 - 2500 calories with the 225 grams minimum to 285 grams maximum (285/3 meals = 95 g.)

I chose to use the maximum carbs factor since it makes it easier for us to try not to go over the max value; therefore, the fewest carbs, the better, as long as we can still feel energetic throughout the day.

My Comment:
It was hard for me at first while I was determined to improve my health mainly to stop neuropathy pains and stay off the insulin pens, which I was not able to afford during the first month after my doctor's visit. That was why she was surprised to see my numbers decreasing while taking Metformin (2 tablets X 500mg./day) without the insulin pens (Lantus & Novolog). Based on MyFitnessPal application on my android pager or I could access my account on their Website (Free) my average carbs for last week was 230g. , as follows:
Sun: 185g.
Mon: 191g.
Tue: 219g.
Wed: 352g.
Thu: 222g.
Fri: 335g.
Sat: 106g.

Some days were high because my wife cooked some potatoes and bacon wrapped steaks. Before this program, I used to eat two plate servings of large portions. So my numbers had definitely been out of control. The neat thing about the application is that the nutrition values based on the brand and type of food listed in their database is automatically added for you. There are some foods that may not have the right value so it is important to verify the carbs, calories, and sugar with the right brand/type of food. Second, I love 'My Meal' list so that I do not have to repeatedly search for foods that I eat on a regular basis.

Last, I created an Excel file for my pager to keep track of my medicine/supplement intake with date and times. I use "OnTrack" application to monitor my blood glucose and pressure/pulse. Whenever I have an issue, I look at all three to figure out what is causing me to feel weak or in pain to determine the correlation. Yes, it seems like a lot of work, which becomes second nature over time.

I am glad to be sharing this information because I understand how challenging it may be for many people. There are no simple fix or solution that requires little effort.

Good luck to you and everyone to be in good health.

Sincerely,
Donald

Donald - where are you coming up with the formula you gave in your post? It's suggesting that we are all alike, which actual experience says isn't true. There may be some people who fit neatly into one of your categories, but my my best guess is that more people don't than do.

For myself, I cannot eat all the carbs you list there. You say the min. carbs I should have is 135, and I can tell you my diabetes would not be in control if I ate all those carbs. I'm a T2 diabetic and my insulin resistance is significant.

Is there a source for this specific list?

 

[Judo64]

Greetings Shanny -

I understand your argument here. Please do take into consideration that we form our opinion and beliefs over time that works for us. The nutrition information helps us understand more about what we are eating and what to avoid. Many junk foods that I used to eat, which I stopped because I was able to understand the values of what I had put in my body.

I had to change somewhere and the information I received from the program was a starting point. Does that mean that I have to comply with the preset values for my goal? No. It just gives me an idea of what is "supposedly" ideal for my gender and lifestyle. I have accomplished some of my goals and what matters to me is the end result to a better healthy lifestyle choices - mainly to stay out of the hospital, doctor offices, and the pharmacy.

Last, I do understand that many of us may not be able to afford organic and healthy foods. Yet, fresh produce and proteins are healthier than canned foods. Because of the high probability of prescribing $500.00/month insulin pens, I opt to make better choices/alternatives than to prescribe to any prescription(s) that the information I received from the education program was a starting point to understand more about the food we eat especially carbohydrates and labeling practices.

A month after my initial doctor visit when I went to the class, the nurse who provided me the information about Lantus/Novolog insulin pens was shocked when she found out that I had not started on any insulin shots other than Metformin. I told her that I could not afford them. The fact that she did not know much about the glucose monitoring data that I had collected for the whole month, which I knew that I was going in the right direction, she was adamant that I made the wrong decision that I should have checked with my doctor. I told her that I was going to the doctor's appointment after the class.

Second, I told her that my doctor did not ask me about my eating habits or lifestyle choices, which were the primary reasons my HgA1c numbers were extremely high! By eliminating most junk foods, my numbers declined immediately after three months of the last test. My next test is in December and I believe that my number will have dropped a few more points. I am aware that we can manage our diabetes, which is not curable, as of now.

Last, what is working for me may not work for others. I have not drank near as much water as I have for years and done any power walking. I found that both are positive and working for me. I do have some good/bad days that I cannot do power walking. I am aware that neuropathy pains were caused by having diabetes. I am still learning everyday to weed out good and bad information. Some good information may not work for me.

Thanks for sharing your view and opinion.
Donald

These figures are way out of line for most people wishing to control their blood sugar levels. They are more commensurate with the foolish propaganda promoted by the ADA, and most of us have discovered it's a complete failure. The dietitians/nutritionists/certified educators are apparently sworn to uphold the edicts of the ADA, but that doesn't make it right. If their jobs depend on it, what are they to do? But these examples advise too many carbs and not enough calories to do any good.

 

[moon]

Judo - I'm curious what sort of post prandial numbers you get eating that quantity of carbs. Since you keep a chart of carbs, am wondering if you also keep a chart of testing numbers before eating, then 1 and 2 hours afterwards. That's the chart that was instructive in my case, telling me I couldn't eat what they told me to.

You're right - it's overwhelming at first trying to get, much less absorb, so much information. My beef with the ADA and CDEs is that they tell people to eat quantities of carbs that =most= T2 diabetics can't eat without taking huge quantities of meds/insulin, or living with unhealthy blood sugar numbers. It seems to me the best service they could give us would be to say: it varies! The best way to know is to test. But of course, since insurance companies don't cover enough test strips, policy is written that one need not test so much. And since drug companies like us to take, well, more drugs ...

I've become cynical through this experience and regret losing my naivety that the health care 'industry' is about working for our health. Oh, in parts it is, but in huge part it's like any other business, about the bottom line. And the bottom line is not about our health but about following the money.

My CDE asked me how I managed to get my numbers down the way I did, and I told her candidly 'by not following the ADAs advice.' My internist asked me the same thing, so did my retinologist. Same answer. I told them all, should you see on the news someone has gone postal at the ADA, that would be me.

I see all over the web people wandering into forums saying they can't get control of their diabetes, then when they try eating fewer carbs, their numbers go down. Magic! This is anecdotal, I understand that, but it's the rule not the exception.

Anyway - thanks for your response and I'll quit now. I was just in the mood for a little rant ... directed at those who would make me go postal.

 

[Shanny]

I told them all, should you see on the news someone has gone postal at the ADA, that would be me.

I think I love you (apologies to the Partridge Family . . . !)

 

[naynay]

You guys all crack me up! Some of these chats get so technical! Why aren't most of you doctors? Hey, here's an idea...let's start a clinic for diabetics and go against the Big Pharma and ADA! We can make millions and donate to a possible cure or donate to more advertisement against carbs! I LOVE THIS IDEA!

 

[Daytona]

You guys all crack me up! Some of these chats get so technical! Why aren't most of you doctors? Hey, here's an idea...let's start a clinic for diabetics and go against the Big Pharma and ADA! We can make millions and donate to a possible cure or donate to more advertisement against carbs! I LOVE THIS IDEA!

If I knew what I know now before I went to collage, I would have definitely gone into some kind of medical/science field. Either biochemistry, nutrition or something similar. I would love to setup a clinic that specializes in turning diabetics into non-diabetic diabetics.

 

[Shalynne]

Judo - I'm curious what sort of post prandial numbers you get eating that quantity of carbs. Since you keep a chart of carbs, am wondering if you also keep a chart of testing numbers before eating, then 1 and 2 hours afterwards. That's the chart that was instructive in my case, telling me I couldn't eat what they told me to.

You're right - it's overwhelming at first trying to get, much less absorb, so much information. My beef with the ADA and CDEs is that they tell people to eat quantities of carbs that =most= T2 diabetics can't eat without taking huge quantities of meds/insulin, or living with unhealthy blood sugar numbers. It seems to me the best service they could give us would be to say: it varies! The best way to know is to test. But of course, since insurance companies don't cover enough test strips, policy is written that one need not test so much. And since drug companies like us to take, well, more drugs ...

I've become cynical through this experience and regret losing my naivety that the health care 'industry' is about working for our health. Oh, in parts it is, but in huge part it's like any other business, about the bottom line. And the bottom line is not about our health but about following the money.

My CDE asked me how I managed to get my numbers down the way I did, and I told her candidly 'by not following the ADAs advice.' My internist asked me the same thing, so did my retinologist. Same answer. I told them all, should you see on the news someone has gone postal at the ADA, that would be me.

I see all over the web people wandering into forums saying they can't get control of their diabetes, then when they try eating fewer carbs, their numbers go down. Magic! This is anecdotal, I understand that, but it's the rule not the exception.

Anyway - thanks for your response and I'll quit now. I was just in the mood for a little rant ... directed at those who would make me go postal.

Ya know, I tried the 45g carbs per meal thing, and ended up with postal-prandial numbers!

Great rant, Moon! I was working up a diatribe...er...treatise...er...response of my own, but you said it all.

Seriously, now. Perhaps the higher carbs work beautifully for some diabetics. But from what I've seen, that's miles away from the majority. It would seem, then, that the wisest path is to cut carbs way down, then gradually add them in until one reaches their personal max. While, of course, testing diligently.

 

[naynay]

Here, here Shalynne! I totally agree with that! Do I miss eating a bowl of pasta? You BET! Can I eat a bowl of pasta? Sadly, no. I can't even eat one string of pasta without it raising my bg's. Therefore, why cry over what I can't have. I have fond memories. I will never go back to that lifestyle. And, I WILL get these darned numbers to a consistently good reading...I'm bound and determined! I hope everyone can achieve this same thing. And for those who continue to eat their way to diabetes, well, I would hope they could find this forum before that happens. Perhaps that is the best way to promote wellness.