[Shalynne]

I really don't want to go on statins. I do not need to be re-sidelined by side effects from a regimen that, from all appearances, would provide no benefit to me, but would be of great help to the pharmaceutical industry.

BUT ... my LDL is over 200. Maybe I'm just being stupid?

On the other hand, they also say that all diabetics should be on statins. Blatant BS. But then again, my LDL is horrific.

HDL's OK, though. Don't have a genetic condition that I know of. Blood pressure is fine.

Have any of you actually benefited from statins?

If so, maybe I need to do a 180 and go with the statin flow. Would be far from the first time I've had to reform.

 

[onlymep]

Shalynne... you're doing the low carb/high fat diet aren't you? That is my reason for not doing high fat as I increased fat intake at one point and my LDL went right up... my doc wanted to put me on statin too... but overall I didn't get above 6.5 cholesterol to get on the PBS here to get the drug. So I cut back on the fat and my cholesterol has improved. Everyone is different... I'm suggesting here to have a play with your diet first and see if you can get it down that way first before being pushed onto statins. I know what they say as they say it here too... all diabetics should be on statins as a preventative for heart disease. To date I've not been put on statins, I'm just on blood pressure meds though as a preventative thing really as my blood pressure was only slightly elevated when I was put on it. I do like all my levels to be on the safe side though.... so for me all food in moderation works better. Although I've probably had a bit more fat than my usual this week... so hopefully I'm not going back the other way.

 

[Patdart]

I don't know what your levels are, but I can tell you that my overall levels went down like a rock when I went low carb, high fat and have come up a bit, but are still in the 'low risk' category now. My cardiologist told me they would and he was sure right about that. Who'd a thunk it? Not me... brainwashed me.

My PCP put me on them after my stroke even tho' I didn't fall into the crowd needing them and I took them for a few months, but I felt 'saggy' on them and with his permission quit them and nothing changed, but meanwhile I'd learned that my stroke was most likely caused by my high red cell count.

YMMV applies here. Good luck

 

[Rosa]

I really don't want to go on statins. I do not need to be re-sidelined by side effects from a regimen that, from all appearances, would provide no benefit to me, but would be of great help to the pharmaceutical industry.

BUT ... my LDL is over 200. Maybe I'm just being stupid?

On the other hand, they also say that all diabetics should be on statins. Blatant BS. But then again, my LDL is horrific.

HDL's OK, though. Don't have a genetic condition that I know of. Blood pressure is fine.

Have any of you actually benefited from statins?

If so, maybe I need to do a 180 and go with the statin flow. Would be far from the first time I've had to reform.

Shalynne, do you mind if I ask you why you object to going on a statin? I've been on them for years and have no problems. I admit I don't know anything medical, so perhaps you know something I don't - what can they do to you?

Rosa

 

[Shanny]

Doc put me on a statin automatically with my diabetes diagnosis. I didn't know any better at the time, so I took them. Several months later after I DID know better, I ask him to take me off, and he did. So I can't really say that low-carb/high-fat has worked a miracle on MY lipids, but it sure did on my husband's. His lipid levels dropped like a rock, as Pat says. And all he did is eat what I cook - lc/hf. I hope it made a believer out of our doc . . . I know he was really shocked!

Of greater interest . . . what are your triglycerides? High HDL & low triglycerides is the real combination that kinda supercedes LDL, because it's the indicator that LDL particle size is prob'ly large & fluffy. The test that actually measures LDL particle size is the vertical auto profile (VAP) test.

 

[Shalynne]

Shalynne... you're doing the low carb/high fat diet aren't you? That is my reason for not doing high fat as I increased fat intake at one point and my LDL went right up... my doc wanted to put me on statin too... but overall I didn't get above 6.5 cholesterol to get on the PBS here to get the drug. So I cut back on the fat and my cholesterol has improved. Everyone is different... I'm suggesting here to have a play with your diet first and see if you can get it down that way first before being pushed onto statins. I know what they say as they say it here too... all diabetics should be on statins as a preventative for heart disease. To date I've not been put on statins, I'm just on blood pressure meds though as a preventative thing really as my blood pressure was only slightly elevated when I was put on it. I do like all my levels to be on the safe side though.... so for me all food in moderation works better. Although I've probably had a bit more fat than my usual this week... so hopefully I'm not going back the other way.

Problem is, my system wants to send my glucose up to the Moon. Even on insulin, non-leafy carbs make me spike. As long as I stay low-carb, levels are OK ... even so, I still get the occasional spike.

I may need to up my insulin more, but my current dose has started to muck up my weight. (At least I'm not gaining, but I really need to lose.)

Looks like I may just need to choose which bad result(s) I prefer.

 

[Shalynne]

Shalynne, do you mind if I ask you why you object to going on a statin? I've been on them for years and have no problems. I admit I don't know anything medical, so perhaps you know something I don't - what can they do to you?

Rosa

I'm very glad statins work for you.

They might be exactly what I need, too ... but the side effects seem quite common. And the performance reports I've seen point to very little positive effect. I'm afraid they'd shove me back to Square One as far as life-functioning.

My main fear is brain fog. I'm super-susceptible to that, and have already wasted a few years, and everybody's patience, with my constant bumbling. It's nice now, not leaving a trail of goof-ups behind me wherever I go.

 

[Shalynne]

Doc put me on a statin automatically with my diabetes diagnosis. I didn't know any better at the time, so I took them. Several months later after I DID know better, I ask him to take me off, and he did. So I can't really say that low-carb/high-fat has worked a miracle on MY lipids, but it sure did on my husband's. His lipid levels dropped like a rock, as Pat says. And all he did is eat what I cook - lc/hf. I hope it made a believer out of our doc . . . I know he was really shocked!

Of greater interest . . . what are your triglycerides? High HDL & low triglycerides is the real combination that kinda supercedes LDL, because it's the indicator that LDL particle size is prob'ly large & fluffy. The test that actually measures LDL particle size is the vertical auto profile (VAP) test.

Ya know, I have no idea about trigs. Just checked online, and can find no test results for trigs. Does that test go by a different sort of name?

I know I've never had a VAP test ... I just may ask for one, plus triglycerides. But I'm pretty sure my HMO does not believe in that sort of thing. What they seem to believe is, "LDL bad!" So it might be good info to me, but mean nothing to them.

But then they also give generic, typeless diagnoses of diabetes. I had type tests (GAD-65, c-peptide, etc.) today, too. In fact those are the tests I asked for, and LDL tests got tacked on in addition.

Still waiting for the results for the tests I requested, by the way.

 

[Shalynne]

Forgot to add -- prior to D-diagnosis my LDL was high and HDL normal or above, as well. LDL's gone up just a squitch since then. Changing my diet, be it to higher-carb, zero-carb or paleo, won't change anything much.

Given today's lopsided testing (no HDL test this time), and the fact that LDL tests got tacked on to other tests I requested, I'm beginning to sense an agenda.

I've never taken well to manipulation. Sometimes that tendency has worked against me, Big Time. But more often, it's been a Good Thing.

 

[Rosa]

I'm very glad statins work for you.

They might be exactly what I need, too ... but the side effects seem quite common. And the performance reports I've seen point to very little positive effect. I'm afraid they'd shove me back to Square One as far as life-functioning.

My main fear is brain fog. I'm super-susceptible to that, and have already wasted a few years, and everybody's patience, with my constant bumbling. It's nice now, not leaving a trail of goof-ups behind me wherever I go.

I don't think this has anything to do with my sugar, but I notice I'm becoming a little forgetful. Sometimes I'll be in the middle of a sentence & forget what I was saying! It usually comes back to me within a couple of minutes, but I think age is getting me.

Rosa

 

[Shanny]

Our trigs are included in the basic lipids panel, so wherever your other cholesterol numbers are, trigs oughta be there too. Unless, of course, they ARE ordering your tests "a la carte" to conform to their plan. Much cheaper to use the standard panel, I would think.

My lab lists basic lipids in this order:

CHOLESTEROL
TRIGLYCERIDE
HDL
LDL CALCULATED
CHOL/HDL RATIO

 

[Shalynne]

I don't think this has anything to do with my sugar, but I notice I'm becoming a little forgetful. Sometimes I'll be in the middle of a sentence & forget what I was saying! It usually comes back to me within a couple of minutes, but I think age is getting me.

Rosa

I thought that, too. I just decided "it is what it is," and apologized for everything that went wrong in my vicinity, because 95% of the time, yup, it was my bad. Again.

Hadn't always been that way, but ... oh, well.

But after getting my levels down, the improvement has been dramatic. And totally unexpected. Still not 100%, but back to a reasonable level.

 

[Shalynne]

Our trigs are included in the basic lipids panel, so wherever your other cholesterol numbers are, trigs oughta be there too.

My lab lists in this order:

CHOLESTEROL
TRIGLYCERIDE
HDL
LDL CALCULATED
CHOL/HDL RATIO

Ho-kay. Never got triglyceride, nor cholesterol/HDL ratio.

Thanks for the non-violent ammo, Shanny!

Ya know, after a year or two of this, all of us should get diplomas.

 

[Rosa]

I thought that, too. I just decided "it is what it is," and apologized for everything that went wrong in my vicinity, because 95% of the time, yup, it was my bad. Again.

Hadn't always been that way, but ... oh, well.

But after getting my levels down, the improvement has been dramatic. And totally unexpected. Still not 100%, but back to a reasonable level.

Shalynne, thanks for your help.

Rosa

 

[jwags]

I gave in to the statins even though my numbers weren't that high just a touch over 200 and my HDL is extremely high. For the first year on statins I really didn't have a lot of side effects, so I thought. But I did have more muscle aches, being out of breath alot and it seemed to take longer to rebound after exercise sessions. No one told me that statins destroy CoQ10 and muscle tissue. My doctor just told me they were wonderful and everyone takes them. After about 14 months on them, I felt like I was aging so quickly. I felt like I had severe arthritis or Fibromyalgia. I felt like a little old lady and could barely walk. I started to do my own research and came upon the relation of statins and severe muscle pain. In the worst scenarios the statins actually target your muscle tissue and dissolve it flushing it through your kidneys. They are also hard on your liver. I figure as a diabetic my liver is compromised enough. I stopped the statins on my own and most of the symptoms started to disappear. I started to take CoQ10 and now almost a year later I am on the road to recovery. My doctor called it Statin Myopathy. I wished he had told me that before I took them. I also had severe memory brain fog and my balance was terrible. I wonder with all the elderly people taking them, how many of their medical problems are due to statins.

 

[Shalynne]

I gave in to the statins even though my numbers weren't that high just a touch over 200 and my HDL is extremely high. For the first year on statins I really didn't have a lot of side effects, so I thought. But I did have more muscle aches, being out of breath alot and it seemed to take longer to rebound after exercise sessions. No one told me that statins destroy CoQ10 and muscle tissue. My doctor just told me they were wonderful and everyone takes them. After about 14 months on them, I felt like I was aging so quickly. I felt like I had severe arthritis or Fibromyalgia. I felt like a little old lady and could barely walk. I started to do my own research and came upon the relation of statins and severe muscle pain. In the worst scenarios the statins actually target your muscle tissue and dissolve it flushing it through your kidneys. They are also hard on your liver. I figure as a diabetic my liver is compromised enough. I stopped the statins on my own and most of the symptoms started to disappear. I started to take CoQ10 and now almost a year later I am on the road to recovery. My doctor called it Statin Myopathy. I wished he had told me that before I took them. I also had severe memory brain fog and my balance was terrible. I wonder with all the elderly people taking them, how many of their medical problems are due to statins.

Wow. Jeanne, what you went through is simply obscene.

I've been reassured that statins would not increase my glucose levels. But I know that lack of exercise shoots 'em right up.

Further, I can't find any evidence that statins lower LDL enough to justify living with, or even risking, those side effects. Moreover, I find little evidence that reducing LDL truly reduces risks of heart attack or stroke -- though my HMO assures me that it does.

Looks like my unasked-for prescription will continue its stay on the pharmacy shelf.

Many thanks, everybody!

 

[fgummett]

Oh I think there is plenty of evidence that statins lower cholesterol and that is a major concern that I have: cholesterol is vital for many many bodily functions -- which is why (I suspect) the range of side-effects can be so wide... from muscle damage to confusion, memory loss and much else besides.

But as to any benefit in lowering cholesterol, I agree with your assessment -- to me it makes as much sense as laying off fire-fighters to try and reduce the number of house-fires... based on the observation that there is an almost 100% correlation between house-fires and the sudden appearance of fire-fighters!

Oh.. if you still need ammunition for your Doctor you might print this PDF off to read Beyond Routine Cholesterol Testing: The Role of LDL Particle Size Assessment... It may appear to support the current guidelines but it also explains the complete idiocy of relying just on the current LDL "test".


And here's a final word from the legal disclaimer in a statin advert...

 

[jwags]

The statin did lower my LDL but it also lowered my HDL and it raised my Trigs. I guess I am part of the less than 1% who have side effects. But I really think a lot aren't reported. I also think in combination with other drugs it may affect people more. I have a high tolerance for pain, but I was popping alleve all last summer, it didn't even take the edge off the pain. I went through natural childbirth with all my 5 kids with no meds and that pain is no match for the constant pain I felt. I really did feel like it was aging my cells in my body. Also my hair started to fall out in clumps. Whatever it was doing it was attacking my body. My doctor now agrees that I should not be on any statins, ever. So he told me to keep my weight in a nomral range and that should protect me.

 

[onlymep]

that is interesting Jwags My aunt has been on statins for a long time as she has naturally high cholesterol... very high usually. Even on the statins she got told off recently as was sitting on 7.5 or something overall which is too high here (but she has been 13 or higher). But she complains all the time to me that she has pain behind her ear... she has been to several docs and none of them can figure out what is wrong. This pain keeps her awake at night and she is getting tired of it. Do you think it possibly could be caused by the statin she is taking?

 

[Strawberry]

jwags - You are not alone in your reaction to statin drugs. I am also one of the 'less than 1%' population who have adverse reactions to statins. I took Crestor religiously for 3 years and had beautiful cholesterol numbers. Then one day I woke up feeling like every muscle in my body was on fire. Called my doctor and they 'worked' me in to be seen that day. Had to hang onto my husband's arm just to walk. Doctor says "well, maybe you better stop the Crestor for a few weeks and then we will re-start it later".

To make a long story short, we did start it later and had the same reaction. Quit Crestor and then tried, in succession, every statin drug on the market at that time = same reaction. I could barely get out of bed, cried a lot from the pain and decided one day on my own "to heck with the statins - I'm quitting them".

Went back to the doctor and told him of my decision and he basically washed his hands of me. Talked me into trying those non statins like Zetia and Welchol, which by the way, also produced the same kind of muscle pain. I've been off statins 2 years now and I think the muscle damage is permanent. Muscles do not have near the strength that they used to.

Statins may be a miracle drug for some folks, but they are NOT for me.