[lucy2008]

So, is 60 too low? I felt okay and was surprised to see it was lower than 85. It's kind of scary that I didn't feel any symptoms.

I was just diagnosed with T2 a week ago and still floundering with my numbers.

I'm testing my bg before and after 2 random meals/snacks each day, and yesterday before lunch my bg was 60. And this afternoon before lunch it was 69. My numbers are always lower in the mornings/early afternoon (from 60-85) and tend to be much higher at the end of the day (123-161). My guess is this is normal since we're fasting at night, but I'm not so sure about the wide swings I'm getting. I'm not taking any meds at this point, so I'm depending on my diet and exercise to keep my bg stable. I don't think I'm doing too well!

I'm meeting with my doctor on Tuesday to determine whether or not I need to go on meds. Will meds help with these fluctuations? I'm normal weight/height ratio (bmi 23), 55 yr old female, and I exercise 6-7x/week.

Thanks for any replies!

(P.S. I posted a few times last week and now they're gone. Does that happen a lot?)

 

[beefy]

If you're not on ANY meds (not on insulin either?) then it's not likely that 60 is too low for YOU. For me, once I hit about 70 my liver will usually 'dump' some glucose back into my system. I am on some medications that can interfere with that, so it's not always the case for me.

If you're NOT on meds, and you're often seeing fasting #'s in the 60's, that would be just fine, as long as you're eating shortly thereafter.

Everyone is different, and their normal operating range will be different.

If I were you I'd worry much more about anything above 140 ... the goal is to keep it UNDER 140 at all times. Record what you eat when you spike anywhere above 120, and if it's got carbs, REDUCE those carbs.

Based on what your telling us so far, it's EXTREMELY likely you can control your diabetes without meds, simply by watching your carbohydrate intake and continuing with your exercise regime. But of course, YMMV.

EDIT: If the 'diet' you're following is the traditional 'ADA-Approved' or 'Dietitian-Dispensed' diet, you'll find that those are not the healthiest, and all the science says their diets aren't. Low-Carbohydrate and High-Fat (with moderate protein) is the best choice (for most of us, anyway... there are rare exceptions). If you're unfamiliar with the concept, take a few moments to check it out at Dr. Eenfeldt's great website.

 

[Shanny]

(P.S. I posted a few times last week and now they're gone. Does that happen a lot?)

If it happens a lot, it apparently goes unreported, because I've heard only one episode lately when a frequent poster lost a long post. I'll pass this along to the administrator so it will be investigated, because we sure don't want that happening.

That being said - hello & welcome, Lucy. We've had recent discussions about this very thing, so I'm going to post the thread & you can follow up with any other questions or comments you have.

http://www.diabetesforum.com/diabetes/7087-so-what-hypoclycemia.html

 

[lucy2008]

beefy - thanks for the info. I'm not on meds, but after reading the recent thread on the subject, I think it was probably exercise that caused my bg to drop into the 60s. I ate breakfast before each drop, so they weren't fasting numbers. It's all so confusing to me right now. I'm sure I'll catch on to what's normal for me at some point in the near future!

And I'm eating according to the guidelines from the diabetes specialist at my clinic. Basically, 45 carbs/meal, fill 1/2 my plate with low-glycemic veggies, 1/4 with starch (trying to keep this low glycemic as well), 1/4 with protein. Plus two 100 calorie snacks. I've always been very conscious of my diet and eat healthy foods, so I feel like I'm now fine-tuning the steady stream of carbs in my system, and continuing my exercise habits. I'd really like to avoid meds, but I have no problem taking them if I can't keep my bg in a "normal" range.

Shanny - thanks for the link and thanks for the welcome! I'm feeling overwhelmed, so it's nice to hear a friendly voice.

 

[moon]

Unfortunately, the advice you were given as to how many carbs to eat is the same advice we all got, only it doesn't work to keep people off meds, reduce the amount of meds we take, or give us the numbers we want.

If you read around the forum, you'll see many stories of success with eating far fewer carbs than that, and it's the carbs that are giving you those big swings. You might try experimenting by going low-carb for a few days. You'll probably see results pretty quickly.

Welcome to the forum.

 

[beefy]

...And I'm eating according to the guidelines from the diabetes specialist at my clinic. Basically, 45 carbs/meal, fill 1/2 my plate with low-glycemic veggies, 1/4 with starch (trying to keep this low glycemic as well), 1/4 with protein. Plus two 100 calorie snacks. I've always been very conscious of my diet and eat healthy foods, so I feel like I'm now fine-tuning the steady stream of carbs in my system, and continuing my exercise habits. I'd really like to avoid meds, but I have no problem taking them if I can't keep my bg in a "normal" range.

Shanny - thanks for the link and thanks for the welcome! I'm feeling overwhelmed, so it's nice to hear a friendly voice.

I can't fault the diabetes specialist, she's part of a system that's corrupt from the top down. But the information she's given you will NOT help stabilize your blood sugars.

To get it under control, and avoid the large range you're seeing, you'll need to cut some carbohydrate in your diet. Especially starchy carbs.

Potatoes, Corn, Grains, etc. are what's spiking you. The rest of the veggies - eat me to your hearts content (except parsnips and some react to turnips too.) and have one, maybe two small servings of Low-gi fruit per day if it doesn't spike you.

At 45g per meal, that's 135g just for the three meals. If your 100cal snacks are say, 1/2 carb - that's another 25g - for a total of 160g.

I ate no more than 150g when doing 5 hour marathon cycling sessions in the mountains as a 225lb man...

Now that I'm closer to a healthier weight and not doing as much exercise, I'm maintaining good control at under 90g per day, usually about 45-60g in TOTAL.

You will need to look at reducing carb to get those higher numbers down. Avoid anything refined/processed especially.

If it goes against everything you've been taught about healthy eating ... that's OK and it's perfectly normal to feel that way. But give us some time, and do some reading on LCHF, and especially look up things like the saturated fat/cholesterol myth, etc.

Dietitians, diabetes educators, nutritionists, the ADA (American Diabetes Association) even are presenting bad advice based on bad science as well as serious politics and money.

 

[Shalynne]

What Beefy just said. Except that I sometimes spike on carrots, too, so you might want to watch them as well.

Welcome to one great group! Glad you found us, sorry you had to. You'll find lots of info, support and a bit of fun here.

 

[jwags]

Welcome to DF. If those lower readings were after eating breakfast I would think that it is a reaction to the carbs you are eating. I know it sounds wierd but the first stage of Type 2 is sometimes a version of Hypoglycemia due to Insulin Resistance. Many think the lower your bg the better but this is not always so. Many times if you are IR and eat as many carbs as you do at a meal, you will spike quite high within that first hour and your body actually produces insulin but your cells don't recognise it so your pancreas keeps cranking it out. The result could be a bg crash. Normally our liver prevents us from going too low, because it cranks out glucose whenever we start to go too low. Normal, non D's will keep their bgs in a 20-30 point range all day without going high or low because their endocrine system puts out the right amount of insulin when you eat. The oral medication metformin will make you more sensitive to your own insulin so your cells accept the correct amount of insulin.

 

[jwags]

Another thing I just thought of is that lots of lower bgs may influence your bg average and HbA1c. So although your HbA1c may appear in a good range the lows may cancel out your highs. Most doctors don't take the time to look at your bg logs and look for big bg swings which can be problematic. I would also worry if your body gets used to lower bgs without symptoms you could become hypounaware which could be potentially dangerous. We have those shakey symptoms for a reason.

 

[Patdart]

I'm of the opinion that you can have fine control without meds for a while if you just eat 60+ carbs in a day. I'm in good control without meds as long as I'm very careful of my carbs. Most days I eat less than 40 and now that I've done that for a year, I rarely see above 140....almost never.

Welcome and keep us posted. As you can see, there's a lot of helpful folks here.

Good luck,

 

[lucy2008]

Thank you to everybody for your responses. And thanks for the welcome.

I met with my doctor this morning and we went over the last 2-3 days of bg readings and things have really stabilized for me. I rarely get over 120, with most readings in the 80s! I also had some more lab work - tests for kidneys and liver. I think that during the first few days, my system was getting used to a new way of doing things and heaven knows, this can be stressful.

We talked about the 60 bg and she said not to worry about it - it wasn't that low and I'll start to know when I feel like I get that low or lower in time. I just need to keep monitoring as often as I can and that will help me get a feel on how I react. She also said I'll probably wake up some mornings to sky high readings and wonder what I did wrong. She said that's when my pancreas and liver decide to do their own thing while I'm sleeping.

I had performance anxiety when I had to provide a urine sample this morning. I was slightly dehydrated from fasting and didn't drink enough water in the morning to provide a sample, so they had me drink more water. I downed 6 glasses and waited in the lab until the water "kicked in." It barely did! I was able to eke out a tiny amount. But as soon as I got to the office, I was racing to the restroom! I'm expecting a call from the lab telling me I need to try again.

I hear what everybody is saying about low carbs, which means higher fats and proteins. I'm concerned about increasing fats (well, the bad ones) because my cholesterol levels are through the roof right now. And I need the energy from the carbs to sustain my exercise. I'm at the gym 6-7 days a week, for 1-3 hours. I don't eat carrots, corn, or potatoes. I stick with whole grain bread and brown rice, and very little at that. I do like beans, so I want to incorporate them at some point.

Here's a typical day (1200-1500 cals):
Breakfast - 1/2 cup granola-type cereal (or 2 scrambled eggs w/ sauted mushrooms, peppers), 1/2 cup low fat milk, 1/2 banana, bottled light Frappucino
Lunch - 1/2 small can of tuna w/ small amt of mayo on 1 slice whole grain bread, 1/2 apple, small yogurt
Snack - granola bar before gym
Dinner - 1/2 chicken breast, cup of broccoli, 1 slice whole wheat bread w/ small amt butter, 1/2 cup low fat milk
Snack - 100 calorie popcorn

I've lost 2 lbs since I started leveling carbs two weeks ago. And I feel really good. My doctor told me to stick with this since it's working right now, and started me on Lipitor for my cholesterol. I see her again in 1 month to see how this is all panning out.

Stats about myself (if it makes any difference):

55 yr old female
5'5"
136 lbs
total cholesterol 280 -- my good is 75, bad is 185 (need to get it under 100)
triglycerides 99
chol/hdl ratio 3.7
very active

 

[moon]

Your cholesterol doesn't look 'through the roof' to me. Your ratio is excellent - the total number doesn't matter. And 185 LDL is the top of the old range (62-185), before they changed it in January '02 (62-129) and made statin pharmaceutical companies lots richer.

<2 is ideal for Trig/HDL ratio and yours is 1.32
> .3 is good for HDL/LDL and yours is .40

I think you're doing great!

 

[newface]

I wish mine numbers were as low as yours. My Morning numbers are over 200 not to mention at the end of the day. I really need some Devine intervention

 

[beefy]

Thank you to everybody for your responses. And thanks for the welcome.

We're happy to have you here, and glad you feel welcome!

I'm concerned about increasing fats (well, the bad ones) because my cholesterol levels are through the roof right now.

The only really 'bad' fats are trans-fats and anything that's 'processed' in order to become what it is - IE: Corn Oil, etc.

As for cholesterol - eating healthy fats and lowering carbohydrate, especially refined/processed carbs have been shown the surest way of reducing bad cholesterol and increasing good. There is NO evidence that reducing dietary fat intake reduces cholesterol - all research has shown the OPPOSITE.

And I need the energy from the carbs to sustain my exercise. I'm at the gym 6-7 days a week, for 1-3 hours.

Actually, you don't. You think you do and you've been told you do. But you don't.

As a 240lb man I was able to get all the energy I needed eating about 100g of carb daily during 4 and 5 hour INTENSE bike rides. For months my minimum daily ride was still over an hour - and those would be averaging close to 30km/h (19mph) in hilly terrain. Some days I would eat 150g of carb (on a 4,200 calorie diet that's still low-carb...) but these were during weeks with 15-20hrs of very-intense bike riding, sometimes through mountains at 7,000 feet, always at a fairly quick pace.

Now I still do an hour or more of exercise daily on as little as 30g (sometimes as much as 90g) of carb a day - and I'm never tired, burnt-out, dizzy, confused, unable to workout, etc.

The truth is, although carbohydrate is the body's preferred source of energy - that only means it metabolizes it FIRST, not that it's the most efficient. Fat, in fact, is the most-efficient fuel for the body - we generate much more ATP (the fuel used on a cellular level) from fat, using less energy than from carbohydrate.

Let the body respond to the fat instead - it works wonders. The idea of carb-loading for energy/exercise is very-outdated.

Here's a typical day (1200-1500 cals):
Breakfast - 1/2 cup granola-type cereal (or 2 scrambled eggs w/ sauted mushrooms, peppers), 1/2 cup low fat milk, 1/2 banana, bottled light Frappucino
Lunch - 1/2 small can of tuna w/ small amt of mayo on 1 slice whole grain bread, 1/2 apple, small yogurt
Snack - granola bar before gym
Dinner - 1/2 chicken breast, cup of broccoli, 1 slice whole wheat bread w/ small amt butter, 1/2 cup low fat milk
Snack - 100 calorie popcorn

My thoughts - take it or leave it ...

Breakfast - Skip the granola unless you've made it yourself out of low-carb ingredients. Check our recipes section for low-carb granola... The scrambled eggs are way better for you, and provide more nutrients and energy.

Lunch - change to sprouted-grain bread instead of the whole-grain. Whole-grain isn't near as healthy for diabetics as some would have you believe. Sprouted grain will really help your BG control. The half-apple is OK, but do NOT eat a small yogurt if it's like yoplait or something - those are NOT health food. You might as well drink a coke as eat a small yoplait-type low-fat yogurt... Find some flavored greek yogurt, or have something like almonds, etc.

Snack - check the ingredients on that granola bar. Actually, nevermind. Unless you made it yourself, it's sugary-crap. If you feel you need a snack before the gym, do your best to have it be healthy fats instead of carbs. Eating carbs and going to the gym is one reason why people's weight-loss is slow... (ie: 2lbs in 2 weeks... ) remember, you have to burn all that dietary sugar before you can switch to fat burning...

Dinner - Feel free to have skin on that chicken breast. We even have some great low-carb batter recipes if you want to deep fry it in peanut oil (my choice for fried chicken) or something similar. Broccoli or salad is great. (Watch carbs in salad dressings.) You'd do better without the bread, of course - if you really need bread you can try 1/2 slice of sprouted-grain instead - or check out 'oopsie' rolls ... they're awesome. As for milk - try instead a small glass of full-fat/whole milk. (I don't drink milk, myself.)

Snack - I'd also substitute something with some fat content instead of the popcorn - I'm not happy with the ingredients in those little snack bags... they're kind-of scary. I may have some pepperoni slices and cheese, or some broccoli in a cream-cheese dip, almonds, etc. Or, if you really like popcorn - pop your own in coconut oil and add a tablespoon of melted butter. Mmm...

I've lost 2 lbs since I started leveling carbs two weeks ago. And I feel really good. My doctor told me to stick with this since it's working right now, and started me on Lipitor for my cholesterol. I see her again in 1 month to see how this is all panning out.

I'm going to stress something here: In your case there is NO evidence that statins do anything to protect you from heart attack or stroke. Period.

Will they lower your cholesterol? Likely... You may also have serious complications/side-effects from it.

For a woman in your situation, all lipitor will really help is Pfizer. (Unless you've had a previous heart attack - even then the evidence is scant and very slim.)

Stats about myself (if it makes any difference):

55 yr old female
5'5"
136 lbs
total cholesterol 280 -- my good is 75, bad is 185 (need to get it under 100)
triglycerides 99
chol/hdl ratio 3.7
very active

Sounds like you don't have much weight to lose - so 2lbs in 2 weeks isn't bad.

But again, you do NOT need the statin. Lowering your carb and eating healthy natural fats will improve your cholesterol profile tremendously. It's been proven. Multiple times.

Even the drug companies can't prove statins benefit people, btw. Their own tests show you'd need to give about 250 men statin drugs for 10 years to possibly prevent ONE heart attack. And the stats are even LOWER for women.

And you don't need to take my word for it. Please feel free to PM me if you'd like any links to research articles, papers, expert blogs, etc.

EDIT: I should add - all that being said - YOU'RE DOING GREAT! Please don't think I'm being pushy (I often come across that way) - if you need time to make adjustments, take the time - just don't take to much - health is important and research shows most Type 2's do deteriorate in certain function, etc., without really good control. Remember, you're CARB-INTOLERANT. If you had a gluten allergy, you wouldn't eat gluten ... yet people with diabetes often eat too many carbs ...

 

[Shanny]

I wish mine numbers were as low as yours. My Morning numbers are over 200 not to mention at the end of the day. I really need some Devine intervention

Are you still eating a lot of carbs & fruit, as you mentioned this summer? Are you testing after meals to see which foods raise your blood sugar? If you search our boards for LCHF or LC/HF, you'll discover the way of eating that keeps sugars low & takes weight off.

Let us know how you've been doing the last few months - it's good to have you back with us!