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Discussion Starter · #1 ·
As I mentioned in another post, I just had a physical exam (my last one was 9 years ago). Although I haven't been showing any symptoms, I had a suspicion I was a prime candidate for type 2 diabetes (I'm 6ft, 275 lbs (125 kg) and my BMI is off the charts). Although I'm medically classified as obese I walk a lot so I guess I thought I wouldn't get diabetes. Wrong. I took a fasting blood test and it came back at 13 (normal range is 4 to 7). I'm getting another blood test done just to confirm, but I think my doc is pretty sure since he has set up an appointment with a diabetes educator. When I was told I had diabetes I was shocked, then sad, then mad at myself for not losing weight. My wife has been bugging me to get in shape for years, but I didn't. I feel that I have let her and myself down. While I wait to meet with the diabetes educator and nutrionist, I am freaking out. I Bbought a paif of good trainers and have begun walking three times a day for 40 minutes at a time, am doing light weight training and have stopped drinking alcohol and restricting my eating to veg, peanut butter and fish. I want to get this disease under control ASAP and am committed to do whatever it takes...i'm just not sure what that is. Feel free to let me know if I am overreacting.
 

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Finnegan, welcome aboard! Your doctor was very rude the way he told you the diagnosis. I think you should see an endocrinologist (diabetes specialist) and be given the appropriate tests for being properly diagnosed. In the meantime eat low carb food and test your blood sugar with a meter. If there is a Walmart in your area you can buy a Relion meter for approx. $9 and a box of 50 strips for approx. $21. Test in the morning before you eat anything. Then test 2 hours after breakfast. Eat no more than 30 carbs for breakfast. Let us know the results of these tests. Also, do not eat anything after your evening meal since that can influence your morning test. These results are not entirely conclusive. An endocrinologist will have tests done that will will be more appropriate.

I have been a diabetic for 64 years and I am very healthy, with no diabetes complications. With good control we diabetics can live long, healthy lives. My diabetes has not kept me from doing the things I wanted to do during my lifetime.

Richard
 

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Discussion Starter · #3 ·
Thanks for the info Richard. My head is still spinning after being told I probably have diabetes. Would it be possible for a person to have a reading of 13 and not be diabetic? My doc said that "by definition" anyone with a glucose level of 13 is a diabetic. I'm praying (literarally and figuratively) that my second blood test comes back okay or at least pre-diabetic so that I have an opportunity to change my ways. If it doesn't, I'll take it like a man, cry a bit and then get on with not letting diabetes stop me.

Like alomost everyone in North America, I have a Walmart down the street (lol) and will heed your suggestion. At his point the heardest part is waiting for confirmation that I am truly diabetic.
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
I took Richards advice and bought a glucose meter (Accu-Chek Aviva). Did a test about 2 hours after eating a bowl of plain otmeal, and a piece of whole wheat bread with natural peanut buttter. Results came back as 9.4 (approx 171 mg/dl) down from 13 (234) 2 days ago. Is this a big change?
 

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I took Richards advice and bought a glucose meter (Accu-Chek Aviva). Did a test about 2 hours after eating a bowl of plain otmeal, and a piece of whole wheat bread with natural peanut buttter. Results came back as 9.4 (approx 171 mg/dl) down from 13 (234) 2 days ago. Is this a big change?
Its a big difference, but without any baseline, its hard to know if its really an improvement.

I can't be your doctor :) and get you all confused, but assuming you can afford the strips, you need to test every morning when you first get up, the sooner the better. Wash your hands, always, before testing, and record each of this "fasting" numbers every day.

Most T2's cannot tolerate very many carbs early in the AM, so stay with eggs, bacon, sausage, even a salad, or the like to avoid starting the day with a high spike.

Then, when its time to eat, test just before you start to eat (some say to test when you are done eating, so you see opinions vary <g>) then test an hour later, and then two hours later. Record it, along with what you ate.

My doctor tells me to test in the AM, and an hour after I eat, and that is all. Well, if you don't know what your blood sugar was before you ate, the number an hour later doesn't teach you anything about what that food does to your readings. If you only test an hour, or maybe two hours later, and its 175, that may be pretty good if your number before the meal was 165, but its pretty large if you were at 100. See what I mean?

The morning fasting test is a good baseline for your progress, the two, or three tests around your meals, teach you what you can and cannot eat, which will affect your fasting numbers as you improve and gain control.

All I can offer is my food experience, and bread is out of the question. A slice of whole grain can be as low as 13 carbs, which is not too bad, and as high as 40+ carbs, so learn to read the labels. Peanut butter is good for you, but its no way to loose weight, so watch out for how much of that you eat :)

Diets are highly individual. All we can do is tell you what we eat, and then you have to try things, and test. Me? I can eat about 30 carbs per meal, and after that, my numbers go too high for my liking. You need to find out how many you can eat, and work from there.

Hang in there. It starts out really crazy and frustrating, but after a while, well, it becomes a habit, just like anything else you do over and over again.

You need a baseline tho. Random testing really doesn't teach you much about how to proceed.

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #6 · (Edited)
I'm just really confused. After one blood test of 13 my doctor says I'm diabetic. Then he schedules me for another blood test a few days later just to make sure. Shouldn't have said I likely have diabetes before jumping to conclusions. Also, I thought that in order to be considered diabetic my blood glucose numbers need to be consistantly high (i.e. over a period of time). Can one blood test conclusively confirm someone as diabetic? QAlso 12 hours before my first test I was at a party and probably drink the equivalent of a bottle and a half of wine (it was a good party). Could this have effected my fasting blood test?

My wife is hypoglycemic and has to watch her diet...some days her sugar is low some days high (I tested her today and it came back as 7.8). I'm hoping my second blood test comes back lower and that I'm just hyperglycemic/pre-diabetic. Whatever the outcome, I do know that I need to make some lifestyle changes (I'm 6' and 275 lbs) and get in shape. Thanks everyone for their advice...right now I have no clue how to proceed and your info has been a big help.
 

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A single test of 13 is enough to make your doctor concerned, but not enough to make a diagnosis. A GTT (glucose tolerance test) and an A1c test are more appropriate for diagnosing. An A1c test is done by taking a single blood sample and testing to see what your average blood sugar level has been for the preceding three months. The latter test is very powerful and says so much more than a single blood test at home.

Alcohol can initially make your blood sugar drop but after more time has passed the carbs in the drink can raise your blood sugar. If you had a lot of wine then it could easily give you a temporary high blood sugar count. Your breakfast consisting of a bowl of oatmeal and a slice of wheat bread was actually quite high in carbs. that would also raise your blood sugar considerably. I wonder what your test would have been if you had a couple of eggs, some meat and a piece of fruit. That would be a low carb meal. If I eat bread I buy low carb bread, approx. 8 carbs per slice. Your wheat bread may have had many more carbs. All cereals are very high carb. I do not eat cereals.
 

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Thanks everyone for their advice...right now I have no clue how to proceed and your info has been a big help.
My disclaimer applies. That being that its only my opinion, and what I have learned, since I have spent a lot of time reading and listening to what others have gone through, plus my own personal experience. I believe that mine was caught early, and so far, is not so bad, as my initial A1c test was 6.8, and my second one, three months later, is 5.5 without any meds, so I have not suffered all the high numbers that others have. All I know is, like I said before, you won't die this month because of it, so work it through, ask all you want, and put a plan into action. Don't panic. Monitor the results. If they are not to your satisfaction, alter them until you find what works for you. Maybe meds are necessary, maybe diet and exercise will get you where you need to be. Only you can determine if you are up to the task or not.

Personally, I hate medications. Usually, they solve one problem, and create four others. I have a suspiciuon that my diabetes was brought out by other medications that were foisted on me for a variety of reasons that are too boring to bring up here. My daughter got meds for a thyroid condition that made her "women stuff" unbearable, but a quick check of the side effects, showed that those meds will destroy her liver. Another daughter has Chron's disease and the meds for that have ruined her health and life more than the Chron's ever could. Pick your poison. They both went herbal and are doing okay.

Your doctor was not correct to call you a diabetic based on one blood reading. There are technical rules that must be followed, because being diabetic goes beyond being sick, it affects your health and life insurance, and can cause problems getting certain jobs. A faulty diagnosis can haunt you the rest of our life, and may be grounds for legal action.

The ADA lists their standards for testing. He should have followed them. You need an A1c test, which is simple and can even be done at home with a Walgreen's or other pharmacy kit, and you need a fasting glucose tolerance test.

This test sends you to the lab, usually in the AM, not having eaten since the previous dinner time, and no breakfast that day. You get a reading taken, and then they give you a glucose cocktail which I believe is 75 grams of glucose. An hour later, they test your glucose, and two hours later, they do it again.

Here is what my test results specified for readings.

First, your fasting number should be 70-105 (we speak slightly different language in those numbers <g>) Mine was 124

You drink the cocktail, and an hour later, you should be within 85-140, mine was 246

Two hours later, you should be 70-125, and I was only down to 222, so I failed miserably.

Numbers higher than those specs, indicate likely diabetes.

The A1c test is a bit different, in that it checks your average glucose level for the last three months. You cannot monitor your levels 24/7 so this test is able to find that level and report it. Your result should be no higher than 5.7.

These tests, and I think there is another one that could take one of their places, are the indicators that allow the doctor to declare you a diabetic. Without them, he has no reason to anything more than a suspicion, which should lead him to administer these lab tests.

Numbers may vary depending on who you ask, but these are the ones that came back with my lab work. I failed them both :-(

Frankly, imo, you need to have these tests done, to help you with your mindset. Most want to deny they are diabetic. The tests put that to rest.

Turns out my mom, who passed away recently, had a meter, and was tested randomly by my sister, and she rang up 200's on more than one occasion, to which my sister and her doctor both said "oh, that is because she eats a lot of Milky Ways" Baloney. If you hit 200, you are pretty much a diabetic. If you hit it more than a few times, you have problems that need to be addressed. Mom was so old, it didn't matter, cause she would never have done the exercise or diet necessary, so they just lied about it to each other, and never told her. But it would have been nice, if they had told her children so they could watch out, and perhaps make adjustments to fend it off.

A normal person will have fasting morning numbers in the 70-80 range, and never exceed 140, even after Thanksgiving dinner. The healthy pancreas can pump out all the insulin you body needs to cope with whatever you eat so you could never get to 200, even if all you ate was Milky Ways :) (Oh how I miss those.......)

Anyway, you need those tests. You can do it on your own with your own cocktail and testing by drinking 75 carbs of soda, and you can do the A1c test with the pharmacy kit.

Frankly, depending on your condition, if you can get your numbers to start coming down on your own, with diet and exercise, you only need the doctor to help you get the testing supplies if you have insurance. Beyond that, I think -most- doctors are ignorant of how to control diabetes.

Go to bloodsugar101.com and find a ton of great info and links, and keep asking questions. There are no dumb questions, just people who think it makes them dumb, because there is something they don't know. Who among us, knows everything?

John
 

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I wonder what your test would have been if you had a couple of eggs, some meat and a piece of fruit. That would be a low carb meal. If I eat bread I buy low carb bread, approx. 8 carbs per slice. Your wheat bread may have had many more carbs. All cereals are very high carb. I do not eat cereals.
Hi Richard,

I have also tried to make cereals work, and am there with you. They are all bad. I may however, try having my small bowl of cheerios in the afternoon or evening, as I seem to be able to handle carbs a bit better as the day progresses, but in the AM, they clobber me.

I might only quietly say that even fruit is a disaster for the most part, but for a few things. I have ended up with bacon or sausage and eggs in the AM, and this week, am gonna try eating my salad for breakfast. That will be a tough change, but I think low or zero carbs in the AM will make a big A1c difference, at least for me.

Would you tell me the name and source of bread you found that is about 8 carbs per slice. I have searched high and low, and the best I have found, is 13, but it also has to many sugars to make me want to use it.

Thanks. Always appreciate reading your posts and your insights.

John
 

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Discussion Starter · #10 ·
On the Candian Diabetes Foundation website they say to eat more whole grain breads, potatoes and corn...I thought all three were problematic for people with diabetes.

Here's their sample breakfast
Cold cereal (½ cup, 125 mL)
Whole-grain toast (1 slice)
1 orange
Low-fat milk (1 cup, 250 mL)
Peanut butter (2 tbsp, 30 mL)
Tea or coffee

As part of their lunch menu they say eat another slice of whole grain bread and for snack whole grain crackers.
 

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On the Candian Diabetes Foundation website they say to eat more whole grain breads, potatoes and corn...I thought all three were problematic for people with diabetes.

Here's their sample breakfast
Cold cereal (½ cup, 125 mL)
Whole-grain toast (1 slice)
1 orange
Low-fat milk (1 cup, 250 mL)
Peanut butter (2 tbsp, 30 mL)
Tea or coffee

As part of their lunch menu they say eat another slice of whole grain bread and for snack whole grain crackers.
And that is why I recommend that you eat to your meter, not some random average of what someone thinks is okay.

For instance, does it say what cereal? Most are gonna come in around 25-50+ carbs, and a lot of sugars, a cup of low fat milk, 2%, is about 12 carbs, PB is 3 or 4 carbs, dunno about tea or coffee.

Whole grain toast/bread is probably at least 15-18 carbs if you shop hard enough. Regular, common whole grain can be 30 or more. An orange is 11 carbs, and 9g of sugar.

That makes breakfast somewhere in the neighborhood of at least 60 or 70 carbs or so, and yes, I know its rough estimate since there are no brands mentioned, etc. That's a lot of carbs in one sitting for a non medicated T2, especially for me, early in the morning. I learned this by doing my fasting test, and then one and two hours later. So should you because it might be fine for you.

No, I am not a doctor, but I do know that no one can tell you how your body will react to a slice of your favorite bread. You have to test yourself, and see how much it elevates your BG. Most T2's that I read of and those that I know, cannot eat bread, period. You may be lucky, but no association can guarantee that. Only your tests will validate that.

Oranges are sugar. Not a good idea for a diabetic, imo.

The hoped for goal, is morning fast numbers under 100, and never spiking your BG over 140. That can take a while to achieve, so do not be discouraged, but if you research, you will find that most experts say that damage occurs at levels above 140. ADA seems stuck on 170. That is a pretty big gamble since its your life, not theirs.

Get lower morning fast numbers, and you can ingest more carbs without reaching 130-140. That comes from exercise and diet, and if your doctor thinks so, medications.

I kind of view diabetes as not something that millions of people have, but as millions of different diseases, as so many of us react differently to different foods, that its very misleading, and imo, downright irresponsible, for any association to publish a menu for all diabetics to follow. If I ate that breakfast, I would way over 140 for a very long time, and if I ate what the ADA recommends, I could never score an A1c under 7.5 and I would bet it would be even higher.

I remember how upset I was when I finally tested myself for a bowl of raisin bran with a banana. My favorite breakfast. Yikes! My numbers jumped almost 100 points in an hour, and took three and four hours to come back down. I didn't think about bananas, but they are loaded with sugar. I finally actually read the Raisin Bran box, and found not only high carbs (I forget the number) but lots of sugars, and "other carbs" plus high fructose corn syrup, which is downright dangerous for even non-diabetics, and should be banned from the shelves.

Its all up to you to find out what works and doesn't work. Perhaps the CDA is a good place to start, but please don't just blindly eat what they say is okay. Maybe start with it, and test, test, test. Drop one ingredient and see what the results are, never changing more than one thing at a time or you won't learn much.

Always please remember, I don't speak as the all knowing expert. I only know what works for me, what I have read, and what common sense tells me. Bread is a no-no, as is almost anything to do with grains of any kind.

Breakfast is bacon and eggs, sausage and eggs, just eggs, and next I am gonna try salads <shudder!> but most of us t2's are very sensitive to carbs in the AM. Just beware of that.

I hope you fare better than I do with them. :)

Remember also, that a lot of people grew up with diabetes, but didn't have access to meters, and information as complete as we have now, and so when you read about older folks who are T2 suffering damage to their organs, and other side effects, consider that they likely spent much of their lives unable to do much about their condition, but to guess at what they were doing, so that will skew the data if you start researching what can happen to a T2 over time. The real data won't be valid until a generation has had the ability to test themselves, use better meds, and have so much information at their fingertips. The jury is not in yet on how we will do, compared to our peers from 20 years ago.

John
 

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I agree that whole grain breads are good because they digest slowly and will not raise the blood sugar so quickly like white breads. Whole grain breads are usually high in carbs though. My wife eats whole grain bread that has 22 carbs per slice. I do not want that many carbs in my bread.

John, I buy Pepperidge Farm low carb whole grain bread at 8 carbs per slice. If I cannot find that bread on the shelf at my grocery store, I buy oatmeal bread by Country Kitchen. You may not find either of these brands in your area. If so then try other grocery stores. There may be other local brands that are low carb.

Corn and potatoes are among the worst foods for diabetics. They cause the blood sugar to rise (spike) very fast. I eat them but in very small portions. A half cup pf one of them, but not both, at mealtime is enough for me.

Finnegan,
 

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Discussion Starter · #13 ·
Thanks for the info gentlemen. It seems keepin' carbs low is the way to go. Going from eating whatever I wanted to counting carbs, etc. is going to to take getting used to. Please tell me you eat chicken wings at least once a year.
 

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Thanks for the info gentlemen. It seems keepin' carbs low is the way to go. Going from eating whatever I wanted to counting carbs, etc. is going to to take getting used to. Please tell me you eat chicken wings at least once a year.
:) Yes, it does take a lot of work and self control, so do the best you can, without going insane over the details as you work your way towards your goal.

I think you will find that once you get control, and have an understanding of what you can and cannot eat, you will be able to enjoy a few things that you like, even if they are not the perfect food for you. The only 'restriction' would be you probably can't eat as many as you would like <g>

This is where I have had the most trouble in my fairly short journey, as I know I can have some of the foods I love, and in moderation it won't hurt me, but I am afraid that I can't eat "just one lay's potato chip" so I stay off those things completely. Just like an alcoholic is okay until he has one drink, one taste of Pizza, or a Drakes Funny Bone (chocolate frosted chocolate cake with peanut butter filling!!!) and I would be in big trouble :)

Fortunately, at least in my case, going low carb, feeling better, knowing I am doing well in my quest for those low numbers, I have lost a lot of the cravings that I used to always have. Since I started this diet/habit, no cake, brownies, ice cream, soda, cookies, candy, or any of the standard junk food has found its way into me. The only thing I have had to drink since July 1, is water. In fact, not wanting to be prudish, sometimes I see people eating that stuff, downing all that soda and I wonder if they have any idea what they are doing to themselves. All I know is, the longer I can hold out, and stay where I am, the better off I will be.

Not sure what your recipe of chicken wings is, but chicken has no carbs, so eat it if you like it. No fried, as the batter will be high in carbs, roasted, bbq, baked are all good for you. I eat a lot of chicken, just be careful of the seasoning and how its cooked. Steaks, pork, any meat will be zero carbs, so that is where you will get a chance to fill up and have a real meal. Just remember to watch ALL your nutrition, not just the carbs. Everyone needs to eat healthy, no matter what.

Keep plugging away, and let us know how you are doing.

John
 

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On the Candian Diabetes Foundation website they say to eat more whole grain breads, potatoes and corn...I thought all three were problematic for people with diabetes.

Here's their sample breakfast
Cold cereal (½ cup, 125 mL)
Whole-grain toast (1 slice)
1 orange
Low-fat milk (1 cup, 250 mL)
Peanut butter (2 tbsp, 30 mL)
Tea or coffee

As part of their lunch menu they say eat another slice of whole grain bread and for snack whole grain crackers.
Hello Finnegan :D, Welcome aboard. The thing is getting to do something that you like to do phyisicly and to do it with regularity. As for the diet I would look at something that gives you energy and put that energy to work for you and use that into doing something physical. And I bet you will loose weight too. ;) So count carbs and enjoy the outdoors.
 

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Discussion Starter · #16 ·
Did a glucose test this morning before eating...came up as 11 (200 mg)..,crap. I was hoping my blood test of 13 last week was just an error.
 

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Discussion Starter · #17 · (Edited)
Glucose test 1 hour after eating half a piece of whole wheat bread, natural peanut butter, 1/3 tin of tuna, handful of walnuts and a glass of soya milk: 12.8 (230 mg). 2.5 jours after eating and down to 10.9.
Do most type 2's immeditaley start on meds to bring down their blood sugar and then gradually get off them as they lost weight, get in shape, balance out their diets, etc.?
 

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Type 2 diabetes is usually progressive and goes from meds with diet and exercise, to insulin with diet and exercise. The low carb dieting and exercise is a must to keep your blood sugar lower. If your pancreas eventually produces less and less insulin then insulin becomes necessary. Some type 2's have less insulin resistance than others when they are diagnosed and they can have good control on diet and exercise alone. That takes a lot of effort though. When that is no longer working the meds become necessary. I know a few Type 2's who have been eating less than 100 carbs per day and exercising rigorously. Swimming laps for an hour or walking at a fast pace for 5 miles per day or using a treadmill or stationary bike for at least two hours per day. those are examples of what I have read some Type 2's are doing to stay healthy and not use meds. Are you healthy enough to do those kinds of exercises? I walk one hour per day and that is all I can do. I am 70 years old and more rigirous exercises are too much for me.
 

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Discussion Starter · #19 ·
I want to stayof meds as long as I can so I have radically changed my diet to reduce carbs, have started walking 3 times a day briskly for 40 mins at a time.I am 275 lbs so it is going to take some time to get my weight in check (maybe 10 to 12 months). I'm guessing that with my glucose so high I am doing damage to my body, so meds at this point are probably required.
 

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I agree, the meds will be helpful until you have lost the weight. Then you can reduce your dosage and get along without meds. That will take a lot of determination and hard work, but I have read about type 2's doing this. Good luck!
 
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