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Discussion Starter #1
I've been struggling with trying to do exercise like cardio on my elliptical and today on weights at the gym. I don't know why this is so hard but today I had to leave because I was shaking and feeling hypoG.

I know I had plenty of fats this morning before I went. I had 3 eggs, coconut oil 2 tablespoons on accident cause it came out too fast, hwc and a hot dog for extra fats. My total calories were 554, fats were 47 and protein was 27 so how on earth could I fall off the wagon with just doing some weights and I only did 2 to 3 sets of 10 to 12 reps and barely finished and had to leave and I've been shaking and feeling just horrible ever since that I had to take a valium...what is going on here?

Oh a good note if anyone remembers this that I had gained back ALL the weight (6 pounds) that I lost while on metformin and after I got it I gained it all back plus a couple extra. It did settle down after a while and now I lost a couple more so am relieved to see the scale finally moving again.

Ok, I have to go take some advil now cause my muscles are already killing me! I don't know what is going on here but I feel so horrible from this workout physically, I feel such pain in my triceps and triceps and I did not over lift and it is only my left arm that hurts so bad but still feeling hypoglycemic, uggh I don't want to work out if this is how it is going to feel. Not having MUCH energy either to do my exercise bike/elliptical at home either..do I need some carbs for working out maybe?
 

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I might suggest switching your thyroid meds to the morning, so they are in full effect when you might be exercising.

Also, what are the ingredients in that hotdog? Most are full of preservatives, salt, and even sugar.
 

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Discussion Starter #3
I might suggest switching your thyroid meds to the morning, so they are in full effect when you might be exercising.

Also, what are the ingredients in that hotdog? Most are full of preservatives, salt, and even sugar.
That is funny that you mentioned the thyroid med I've been taking them during the morning lately but I was just going to switch back tonight so when I get up in the morning I can eat and then go work out and not have to take the thyroid medicine wait an hour then go work out is too time-consuming but you have a valid point. The hot dog is all natural select Oscar Meyer, they have 15 grams of Fat that is why I buy them and only 1 carb . They are uncured and no artificial anything so I assume they are good fire me. I just feel so crappy.
 

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Puppy, when you felt like you went hypo, did you test your blood sugars? I would not be popping valium or xanax unless I knew it was nerve related, as in nervous/anxious. If you were truly hypo, you really should have a quick sugar supply on you so you can raise your blood sugar to a reasonable level. That is why most diabetics will carry glucose tablets or glucose gel on them at all times. Even though you are not using meds to control, you should still have something that will bring a hypo up within 15 minutes (that is how long it takes for the sugar to hit your system and raise your blood sugar). You are doing great with your diet and exercise. I would be monitoring more since being lchf, and exercising.
 

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Resistant training uses lots of muscle glycogen your body will try to replace this as you go along with the glucose in your blood stream causing you to go low if your liver supply of glycogen is low. I ran into this when I first started myself. It gets better, your muscles learn to store more glycogen giving you more endurance. A bag of Cashews before I worked out was all it took to stop this from happening. After a week or two the Cashews were not necessary any more.
 

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Resistant training uses lots of muscle glycogen your body will try to replace this as you go along with the glucose in your blood stream causing you to go low if your liver supply of glycogen is low. I ran into this when I first started myself. It gets better, your muscles learn to store more glycogen giving you more endurance. A bag of Cashews before I worked out was all it took to stop this from happening. After a week or two the Cashews were not necessary any more.
Isn't that only in the case of "extreme" resistance training? I'm pretty sure I can curl my little 20lb dumbbells for a long time without touching any glycogen.

Also, according to Volek and Phinney if one gets keto-adapted, things improve not because muscles store more glycogen (if anything they would store LESS) but rather because they become better at sparing it, i.e., NOT using it. Other than extreme anaerobic powerlifting (which I doubt many here are doing), muscle glycogen isn't really needed - and much less so with keto adaptation.

So, unless one is in this intense zone, I thing muscle glycogen is irrelevant. It shouldn't even get touched even in a long endurance session. And with keto-adaptation, the ability to NOT use muscle glycogen is increased. If you don't need muscle glycogen, you certainly don't need liver glycogen and so except for extreme exercise, even very long sessions can be entirely fueled on the alternatives, mostly leaving muscle glycogen where it is and even with highly depleted liver glycogen which is a prerequisite and a feature of ketosis.

I don't think the OP is there (keto-adaptation), but for one who is, I think the above applies.

More importantly is to take closer look at what one is actually eating. Even if carbs are very low but fat to protein is too low, burn out is the expected result. This is because there is no ketosis. Everything is still centered around glucose, the only difference is that more of it is now coming from protein. More importantly, there's simply not enough glucose overall and without dietary ketosis, no or limited ketones. Therefore, muscles still demand and rely on glucose. Then, everything you've described becomes true even for less-than-extreme exercise. Glycogen is tapped and when it runs out, trouble.

Puppy, I personally think it's time to tally. Try fitday.com or similar and look at your total fat-protein-carbs for a day. In addition to still being gluco-centric (not keto-adapted), the problem might much simpler than all this and maybe you simply have an energy deficiency because of what your eating (or not eating).
 

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Yes you are correct but its all dependent on ones conditioning level. All relative to the person who is doing the actual work load. I could swing a 20lb dumbell all day and never use glycogen, my wife on the other hand is going to burn glycogen at some point in her routine when she fails to lift it. You are correct, physical conditioning will increase fat utilization and muscle glycogen utilization. Fat oxidation will increase and glycogen will decrease depending on ones level of conditioning. Muscle glycogen will always be there ready to assist with energy production when called upon though.

Isn't that only in the case of "extreme" resistance training? I'm pretty sure I can curl my little 20lb dumbbells for a long time without touching any glycogen.

Also, according to Volek and Phinney if one gets keto-adapted, things improve not because muscles store more glycogen (if anything they would store LESS) but rather because they become better at sparing it, i.e., NOT using it. Other than extreme anaerobic powerlifting (which I doubt many here are doing), muscle glycogen isn't really needed - and much less so with keto adaptation.

So, unless one is in this intense zone, I thing muscle glycogen is irrelevant. It shouldn't even get touched even in a long endurance session. And with keto-adaptation, the ability to NOT use muscle glycogen is increased. If you don't need muscle glycogen, you certainly don't need liver glycogen and so except for extreme exercise, even very long sessions can be entirely fueled on the alternatives, mostly leaving muscle glycogen where it is and even with highly depleted liver glycogen which is a prerequisite and a feature of ketosis.

I don't think the OP is there (keto-adaptation), but for one who is, I think the above applies.

More importantly is to take closer look at what one is actually eating. Even if carbs are very low but fat to protein is too low, burn out is the expected result. This is because there is no ketosis. Everything is still centered around glucose, the only difference is that more of it is now coming from protein. More importantly, there's simply not enough glucose overall and without dietary ketosis, no or limited ketones. Therefore, muscles still demand and rely on glucose. Then, everything you've described becomes true even for less-than-extreme exercise. Glycogen is tapped and when it runs out, trouble.

Puppy, I personally think it's time to tally. Try fitday.com or similar and look at your total fat-protein-carbs for a day. In addition to still being gluco-centric (not keto-adapted), the problem might much simpler than all this and maybe you simply have an energy deficiency because of what your eating (or not eating).
 

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Discussion Starter #8
I did "tally" and I've been doing practically NO CARBS for days now. Even though blood ketone meter says 03 and urine sticks say nothing I am still so low carb that I've forgotten what they taste like. but this was my tally before going to work out:

My total calories were 554, fats were 47 and protein was 27 so how on earth could I fall off the wagon with just doing some weights and I only did 2 to 3 sets of 10 to 12 reps and barely finished and had to leave and I've been shaking and feeling just horrible


Isn't that only in the case of "extreme" resistance training? I'm pretty sure I can curl my little 20lb dumbbells for a long time without touching any glycogen.

Also, according to Volek and Phinney if one gets keto-adapted, things improve not because muscles store more glycogen (if anything they would store LESS) but rather because they become better at sparing it, i.e., NOT using it. Other than extreme anaerobic powerlifting (which I doubt many here are doing), muscle glycogen isn't really needed - and much less so with keto adaptation.

So, unless one is in this intense zone, I thing muscle glycogen is irrelevant. It shouldn't even get touched even in a long endurance session. And with keto-adaptation, the ability to NOT use muscle glycogen is increased. If you don't need muscle glycogen, you certainly don't need liver glycogen and so except for extreme exercise, even very long sessions can be entirely fueled on the alternatives, mostly leaving muscle glycogen where it is and even with highly depleted liver glycogen which is a prerequisite and a feature of ketosis.

I don't think the OP is there (keto-adaptation), but for one who is, I think the above applies.

More importantly is to take closer look at what one is actually eating. Even if carbs are very low but fat to protein is too low, burn out is the expected result. This is because there is no ketosis. Everything is still centered around glucose, the only difference is that more of it is now coming from protein. More importantly, there's simply not enough glucose overall and without dietary ketosis, no or limited ketones. Therefore, muscles still demand and rely on glucose. Then, everything you've described becomes true even for less-than-extreme exercise. Glycogen is tapped and when it runs out, trouble.

Puppy, I personally think it's time to tally. Try fitday.com or similar and look at your total fat-protein-carbs for a day. In addition to still being gluco-centric (not keto-adapted), the problem might much simpler than all this and maybe you simply have an energy deficiency because of what your eating (or not eating).
 

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Discussion Starter #9
I did not test as I did not have meter with me and never even carry it with me and did not even expect to feel that way. I came home and tried to eat a few carbs with some macadamian nuts. I do carry the glucose chewables with me but I always forget I have them. I do take valium for anxiety and it helped to settle me down and then I took 2 advil for the pain and now I feel ok again. Maybe I will bring my meter next time just to check, thanks for the idea of that...but I hope it don't happen again!

Puppy, when you felt like you went hypo, did you test your blood sugars? I would not be popping valium or xanax unless I knew it was nerve related, as in nervous/anxious. If you were truly hypo, you really should have a quick sugar supply on you so you can raise your blood sugar to a reasonable level. That is why most diabetics will carry glucose tablets or glucose gel on them at all times. Even though you are not using meds to control, you should still have something that will bring a hypo up within 15 minutes (that is how long it takes for the sugar to hit your system and raise your blood sugar). You are doing great with your diet and exercise. I would be monitoring more since being lchf, and exercising.
 

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Puppy what I had to do to see what was going on when I first started was to bring my meter with me and check every 15 minutes or after each work out session.

By the way, Good for you going to the gym.
 

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Discussion Starter #11
Well honestly I have run out of strips and was not planning on buying anymore because I am so tired of testing and I figured as long as i'm eating good and eating low carb that I don't really need to test because I've always been under 114 mainly except when I ate blueberries and went to 137 so learned not to eat them. I may have to buy more if I cant figure out why I felt so hypo working out or what to do to avoid it again. thank you for the props they are always welcomed!

Puppy what I had to do to see what was going on when I first started was to bring my meter with me and check every 15 minutes or after each work out session.

By the way, Good for you going to the gym.
 

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Discussion Starter #12 (Edited)
So far today now I've had 1100 calories, 140 fats and 34 proteins, do you think my rations are good?

Isn't that only in the case of "extreme" resistance training? I'm pretty sure I can curl my little 20lb dumbbells for a long time without touching any glycogen.

Also, according to Volek and Phinney if one gets keto-adapted, things improve not because muscles store more glycogen (if anything they would store LESS) but rather because they become better at sparing it, i.e., NOT using it. Other than extreme anaerobic powerlifting (which I doubt many here are doing), muscle glycogen isn't really needed - and much less so with keto adaptation.

So, unless one is in this intense zone, I thing muscle glycogen is irrelevant. It shouldn't even get touched even in a long endurance session. And with keto-adaptation, the ability to NOT use muscle glycogen is increased. If you don't need muscle glycogen, you certainly don't need liver glycogen and so except for extreme exercise, even very long sessions can be entirely fueled on the alternatives, mostly leaving muscle glycogen where it is and even with highly depleted liver glycogen which is a prerequisite and a feature of ketosis.

I don't think the OP is there (keto-adaptation), but for one who is, I think the above applies.

More importantly is to take closer look at what one is actually eating. Even if carbs are very low but fat to protein is too low, burn out is the expected result. This is because there is no ketosis. Everything is still centered around glucose, the only difference is that more of it is now coming from protein. More importantly, there's simply not enough glucose overall and without dietary ketosis, no or limited ketones. Therefore, muscles still demand and rely on glucose. Then, everything you've described becomes true even for less-than-extreme exercise. Glycogen is tapped and when it runs out, trouble.

Puppy, I personally think it's time to tally. Try fitday.com or similar and look at your total fat-protein-carbs for a day. In addition to still being gluco-centric (not keto-adapted), the problem might much simpler than all this and maybe you simply have an energy deficiency because of what your eating (or not eating).
 

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So far today now I've had 1100 calories, 140 fats and 34 proteins, do you think my rations are good?
I think the numbers are a little off because 140g of fat alone is 1260 calories, But, assuming 30g of carbs (you didn't mention carbs), it comes out to:

1516 calories
8% carbs
9% protein
83% fat

KR = 2.2

Excellent!

If you maintain that consistently (some people take longer than others), you should definitely hit nutritional ketosis.
 

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Discussion Starter #14
[There was only 1 carb and I don't even know where it came from.i don't eat ANY carbs anymore not even veggie ones but ones that are in macadamia nuts or a couple in ranch dressing but I don't think I even eat 20 a day. I don't know how come the ketostix don't change color but maybe I don't on a daily basis easy enough fat fir each meal. So those numbers were for half a day but I scaled calories back rest of the day.

QUOTE=smorgan;239642]I think the numbers are a little off because 140g of fat alone is 1260 calories, But, assuming 30g of carbs (you didn't mention carbs), it comes out to:

1516 calories
8% carbs
9% protein
83% fat

KR = 2.2

Excellent!

If you maintain that consistently (some people take longer than others), you should definitely hit nutritional ketosis.[/QUOTE]
 

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You might just need to stick with it (100% compliance, no exceptions) for a while. Most people can reach ketosis in 3 days, but some can take several weeks. Again, it only takes a goof or two to send you back to square one and re-start the clock.
 
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