IMO, people who like Keto are so focused on the lower blood sugar numbers & weight loss, they don't consider any possible negative health issues.
Keto - snapback effect
Went to the Dr. today for my regular diabetes checkup. Things look "normal" as far as diabetes is concerned.
I told my Dr. about starting to eat keto foods and lost 15 pounds in two months, and then all of a sudden I gained it all back.
He explained that keto is basically starving your fat cells of one kind of carb, and if you ever "cheat" or get off the total keto program, then the fat cells will reabsorb all of the carbs you eat, that you have not been eating.
He said most people can't keep to the total keto program, so they may lose a lot of weight at first, but as soon as they "cheat" or switch off the program for a week or two, all those carbs will be soaked up like a sponge by the starved fat cells.
He also said some people's systems just don't acknowledge keto foods, and they end up feeling like they are being starved altogether or become really sluggish and lethargic. Even though keto food may be better for diabetics, not all diabetics can handle the change or their systems may stagnate and make them sick.
In my case, I got the snapback............I lost 15 pounds, then apparently my body just snapped back to the way it was. The Dr. said this is also common. Even if you keep on keto, your body just doesn't acknowledge it and you can still gain weight or gain what you lost back.
So........I give up on the keto. I will still eat some of the keto recipes, because I like them, but other than that......it's not worth the effort if I'm just going to lose some weight and then gain it all back again.
:crying:
I told my Dr. about starting to eat keto foods and lost 15 pounds in two months, and then all of a sudden I gained it all back.
He explained that keto is basically starving your fat cells of one kind of carb, and if you ever "cheat" or get off the total keto program, then the fat cells will reabsorb all of the carbs you eat, that you have not been eating.
He said most people can't keep to the total keto program, so they may lose a lot of weight at first, but as soon as they "cheat" or switch off the program for a week or two, all those carbs will be soaked up like a sponge by the starved fat cells.
He also said some people's systems just don't acknowledge keto foods, and they end up feeling like they are being starved altogether or become really sluggish and lethargic. Even though keto food may be better for diabetics, not all diabetics can handle the change or their systems may stagnate and make them sick.
In my case, I got the snapback............I lost 15 pounds, then apparently my body just snapped back to the way it was. The Dr. said this is also common. Even if you keep on keto, your body just doesn't acknowledge it and you can still gain weight or gain what you lost back.
So........I give up on the keto. I will still eat some of the keto recipes, because I like them, but other than that......it's not worth the effort if I'm just going to lose some weight and then gain it all back again.
:crying:
1 - 20 of 22 Posts
Read:
https://www.virtahealth.com/
Basically, all that doctor said - aside from a bunch of pure hooey - is that is you stop adhering to it it stops working. Duh!
Starving fat cells? Having read many thousands of pages (including real data from real people at the above link), his statements simply have no foundation in reality. Shame.
https://www.virtahealth.com/
Basically, all that doctor said - aside from a bunch of pure hooey - is that is you stop adhering to it it stops working. Duh!
Starving fat cells? Having read many thousands of pages (including real data from real people at the above link), his statements simply have no foundation in reality. Shame.
You might want to reconsider your opinion. What would be the negative health issues of keto? What would be the negative health issues of high blood sugar and obesity? Put those answers in the pans of an equal arm balance (scales) Which pan do you think would slam to the ground?IMO, people who like Keto are so focused on the lower blood sugar numbers & weight loss, they don't consider any possible negative health issues.
You might want to do some research on IF at ruledme or just google keto and intermittent fasting and check out Dr. Jason FungWent to the Dr. today for my regular diabetes checkup. Things look "normal" as far as diabetes is concerned.
I told my Dr. about starting to eat keto foods and lost 15 pounds in two months, and then all of a sudden I gained it all back.
He explained that keto is basically starving your fat cells of one kind of carb, and if you ever "cheat" or get off the total keto program, then the fat cells will reabsorb all of the carbs you eat, that you have not been eating.
He said most people can't keep to the total keto program, so they may lose a lot of weight at first, but as soon as they "cheat" or switch off the program for a week or two, all those carbs will be soaked up like a sponge by the starved fat cells.
He also said some people's systems just don't acknowledge keto foods, and they end up feeling like they are being starved altogether or become really sluggish and lethargic. Even though keto food may be better for diabetics, not all diabetics can handle the change or their systems may stagnate and make them sick.
In my case, I got the snapback............I lost 15 pounds, then apparently my body just snapped back to the way it was. The Dr. said this is also common. Even if you keep on keto, your body just doesn't acknowledge it and you can still gain weight or gain what you lost back.
So........I give up on the keto. I will still eat some of the keto recipes, because I like them, but other than that......it's not worth the effort if I'm just going to lose some weight and then gain it all back again.
:crying:
So when you say you lost 15 pounds and then gained it back, did you start eating more of a keto diet that started the weight loss, go off of it and back to your previous way of eating then gained back the weight? That would tell me that your normal diet may be the problem and not the keto. Not adding enough fats can make you feel hungry, not adding enough salt, can make you feel bad, on keto.
"Starving fat cells", does your doctor think you need to feed them? That makes as much sense as thinking there is a need to carry around a suitcase full of clothes with you in the house in case you might need to change. The fat cells are storage for energy needs when food is not readily available. If carbs were truly a better source of energy they would be stored as glucose and not converted to triglycerides and stored as fats. There is a limited storage for glucose as glycogen for sudden energy needs while the biggest source of energy is stored as fats.
@smorgan, is there supposed to a specific article at your link?
IMO, people who like Keto are so focused on the lower blood sugar numbers & weight loss, they don't consider any possible negative health issues.
My doctor also mentioned this. He say's he gets at least 5 questions a day on people wanting to know about Keto.
Like diabetes affects everybody differently, Keto does the same thing. But he said it is the best way for diabetics to eat, but not if it isn't working for them....they can do more harm than good.
You might want to do some research on IF at ruledme or just google keto and intermittent fasting and check out Dr. Jason Fung
So when you say you lost 15 pounds and then gained it back, did you start eating more of a keto diet that started the weight loss, go off of it and back to your previous way of eating then gained back the weight? That would tell me that your normal diet may be the problem and not the keto. Not adding enough fats can make you feel hungry, not adding enough salt, can make you feel bad, on keto.
"Starving fat cells", does your doctor think you need to feed them? That makes as much sense as thinking there is a need to carry around a suitcase full of clothes with you in the house in case you might need to change. The fat cells are storage for energy needs when food is not readily available. If carbs were truly a better source of energy they would be stored as glucose and not converted to triglycerides and stored as fats. There is a limited storage for glucose as glycogen for sudden energy needs while the biggest source of energy is stored as fats.
Well, I was losing weight on eating the soups and stews I was making. Then I got tired of them and started eating stuff like keto pizza and keto lasagna, and a couple of keto casseroles...........thats when I gained the weight back. I also tried the grain-free bread a couple of times for sandwiches, but that was very expensive, so I only did that a couple of times.
Although I do like the keto soups and stews a lot, I don't like them enough to eat ONLY them and nothing else.
I don't guess I've ever eaten a bite of keto soups or stews, except maybe chili. I eat keto and have a pretty broad base of things that I eat.
I'd be interested in what those negative health issues are with keto. I'd really be interested if it was coming from a doctor that actually knew much about nutrition.
I'd be interested in what those negative health issues are with keto. I'd really be interested if it was coming from a doctor that actually knew much about nutrition.
I usually don't like to respond because it causes conflict & makes some people angry to hear that something they're doing and have faith in may be causing harm, but...You might want to reconsider your opinion. What would be the negative health issues of keto? What would be the negative health issues of high blood sugar and obesity? Put those answers in the pans of an equal arm balance (scales) Which pan do you think would slam to the ground?
A guy in my diabetes support group also sang the praises of Keto & he lost around 20 lbs. At his first doctor visit, his doctor said his labs were fine & that the weight loss was good.
A few months later, his doctor raised hell at his labs & asked, "What the hell are you doing?" He explained the keto & his doctor said, to stop because "you're losing a few pounds & your blood sugar is lower...at the expense of your kidney function & you won't like life without kidneys." He also said he didn't like the "uric acid" level in his blood (whatever that is) & said if he suffered kidney stones, he'd never forget the experience.
He stopped the diet & gained back some of the weight. IMO, if he cut out the Cheerios & Diet Pepsi, he might lose weight.
Personally....I lost 85 lbs. 9 years ago & my A1c went from 9 (at diagnosis) to 6.0 with normal blood sugar by following Dr. Joel Fuhrman's "Eat to Live" program. It's basically increasing vegetables & limiting processed carbs and meat. Fruit - 3-4 servings/day but only raw, unpeeled & unprocessed.
I still follow it & haven't gained back any weight, so it works for me.
If Keto works for you, go for it.
Hearing facts never makes me angry, and I can only shake my head in disbelief when I hear misinformation spread based on opinion without evidence or disregard to contrary evidence, and I've heard lots from doctors.
I've had 2 kidney stones long before keto and only one since. Yes, people have been known to have kidney stones, as well as gout attacks, due to elevated uric acid. However the most common form of kidney stones are calcium, as was my kidney stone after being on LCHF for 6 years and probably the last 5 of those being more keto.
Keto does raise uric acid levels but it has been found to be temporary and returns to pre-keto levels in 6-12 weeks and falls below that in 4-6 months. My source for this is here. Keto is not the only thing that raises uric acid levels. Here is a link to some listed by Mayo Clinic.
Yes keto has worked well for me. If that's the big negative health issue, there are people with more and bigger issues that aren't on keto, so until there is evidence.......
To date, I've lost 70 pounds since diagnosis, going from an A1c of 8.8 to 5.3 and maintain controlled blood sugar levels below 140, usually lower than 100. I do take metformin, but feel my diet is more responsible for my control.
I do question your thinking that Dr. Fuhrman's diet is controlling your BG to normal levels. When did you start insulin if you don't mind my asking?
I've had 2 kidney stones long before keto and only one since. Yes, people have been known to have kidney stones, as well as gout attacks, due to elevated uric acid. However the most common form of kidney stones are calcium, as was my kidney stone after being on LCHF for 6 years and probably the last 5 of those being more keto.
Keto does raise uric acid levels but it has been found to be temporary and returns to pre-keto levels in 6-12 weeks and falls below that in 4-6 months. My source for this is here. Keto is not the only thing that raises uric acid levels. Here is a link to some listed by Mayo Clinic.
Yes keto has worked well for me. If that's the big negative health issue, there are people with more and bigger issues that aren't on keto, so until there is evidence.......
To date, I've lost 70 pounds since diagnosis, going from an A1c of 8.8 to 5.3 and maintain controlled blood sugar levels below 140, usually lower than 100. I do take metformin, but feel my diet is more responsible for my control.
I do question your thinking that Dr. Fuhrman's diet is controlling your BG to normal levels. When did you start insulin if you don't mind my asking?
I started insulin a couple of years ago, after not needing anything other than diet & lifestyle changes for 7 years. Interestingly, after I lost weight, my BG went up enough to need insulin...contrary to the usual belief that losing weight lowers blood sugar or (as some doctors say) makes diabetes go away. I take 9 units before breakfast, no more until dinner. 9-10 units before dinner.
The whole site I felt was valuable to the OP to dispel the nonsense he heard from his doctor. The clinical results and other science is probably the most interesting part and it's under the "Research" tab.@smorgan, is there supposed to a specific article at your link?
Unfortunately for my keto questions, like my diabetes questions to all the Dr.s I've had.......I never get the same answer twice.
Chances are, you never will. I followed my doctor's advice about insulin for one week. She said to take 10 units before each meal. Well, after having dangerous lows (46 - 70), I stopped asking her any questions & followed my own insulin schedule. I know where I'd be if I continued doing what she said to do.Unfortunately for my keto questions, like my diabetes questions to all the Dr.s I've had.......I never get the same answer twice.
Ya know....doctors can repeat what they've read in books & it might work for some patients, but diabetes is different in everyone.
So is food. In my 20's, I sat at the same table with my thin friends, eating the same burgers, fries etc. They stayed thin & I was 100 lbs. overweight.
Went to the Dr. today for my regular diabetes checkup. Things look "normal" as far as diabetes is concerned.
I told my Dr. about starting to eat keto foods and lost 15 pounds in two months, and then all of a sudden I gained it all back.
He explained that keto is basically starving your fat cells of one kind of carb, and if you ever "cheat" or get off the total keto program, then the fat cells will reabsorb all of the carbs you eat, that you have not been eating.
He said most people can't keep to the total keto program, so they may lose a lot of weight at first, but as soon as they "cheat" or switch off the program for a week or two, all those carbs will be soaked up like a sponge by the starved fat cells.
He also said some people's systems just don't acknowledge keto foods, and they end up feeling like they are being starved altogether or become really sluggish and lethargic. Even though keto food may be better for diabetics, not all diabetics can handle the change or their systems may stagnate and make them sick.
In my case, I got the snapback............I lost 15 pounds, then apparently my body just snapped back to the way it was. The Dr. said this is also common. Even if you keep on keto, your body just doesn't acknowledge it and you can still gain weight or gain what you lost back.
So........I give up on the keto. I will still eat some of the keto recipes, because I like them, but other than that......it's not worth the effort if I'm just going to lose some weight and then gain it all back again.
:crying:
Chaidragonfire, it is too late for us, I already like you - LOL. So out of respect for you, I'm not going to come into your church ( this thread) and start preaching a different religion(keto).
I feel that anything that I write in favor of keto might imply that I disagree with your decision. So for now, I think it is important to respect that your health is important to you and you made a decision.
Best of wishes to you,
NSDAD
PS I feel your frustration, I've been there and continue to be there.
Chaidragonfire, it is too late for us, I already like you - LOL. So out of respect for you, I'm not going to come into your church ( this thread) and start preaching a different religion(keto).
I feel that anything that I write in favor of keto might imply that I disagree with your decision. So for now, I think it is important to respect that your health is important to you and you made a decision.
Best of wishes to you,
NSDAD
PS I feel your frustration, I've been there and continue to be there.
LOL
You can preach it if you want too! I just have stopped trying.
I will eat some of the keto foods though, as they are really good, but if they work, fine........if not, I'm not going to worry about it.
I made some more keto soup for this week. It's finally getting cold here where I'm at, so I don't mind eating a lot of soup in the winter. Plus, with all the holidays coming up, I probably should just stick to the soup until the end of January to try and counteract all the other stuff I will be eating (but not supposed to)..........LOL
:biggrin:
Actually, my main focus with keto is general health, lowering risk of Alzheimer's and all other nervous system disorders, maintaining mental clarity into old age, lower CVD risk and other issues. It also seems to have cured painful arthritis in one knee but I guess that could be some kind of coincidence.IMO, people who like Keto are so focused on the lower blood sugar numbers & weight loss, they don't consider any possible negative health issues.
Moving to and staying at ideal weight and restoring all-normal blood sugars from a starting point of 300/180/11.0 are well-received SIDE EFFECTS of going keto.
I'm interested in the side note about uric acid. what does it come from, red meats or protien? I don't think that I'm eating more of either with my keto way of eating. I don't see keto as an excuse to eat too much of anything including protien.I usually don't like to respond because it causes conflict & makes some people angry to hear that something they're doing and have faith in may be causing harm, but...You might want to reconsider your opinion. What would be the negative health issues of keto? What would be the negative health issues of high blood sugar and obesity? Put those answers in the pans of an equal arm balance (scales) Which pan do you think would slam to the ground?
A guy in my diabetes support group also sang the praises of Keto & he lost around 20 lbs. At his first doctor visit, his doctor said his labs were fine & that the weight loss was good.
A few months later, his doctor raised hell at his labs & asked, "What the hell are you doing?" He explained the keto & his doctor said, to stop because "you're losing a few pounds & your blood sugar is lower...at the expense of your kidney function & you won't like life without kidneys." He also said he didn't like the "uric acid" level in his blood (whatever that is) & said if he suffered kidney stones, he'd never forget the experience.
He stopped the diet & gained back some of the weight. IMO, if he cut out the Cheerios & Diet Pepsi, he might lose weight.
Personally....I lost 85 lbs. 9 years ago & my A1c went from 9 (at diagnosis) to 6.0 with normal blood sugar by following Dr. Joel Fuhrman's "Eat to Live" program. It's basically increasing vegetables & limiting processed carbs and meat. Fruit - 3-4 servings/day but only raw, unpeeled & unprocessed.
I still follow it & haven't gained back any weight, so it works for me.
If Keto works for you, go for it.
Yes, it is virtually certain that the person mentioned was not doing keto properly. It seems he was eating too much lean red meat, a VERY common mistake people make on keto. Unfortunately, there are only a handful of doctors world-wide who will help - or even cooperate - with anyone attempting keto, so people are left on their own. Lots of mistakes are made which are then erroneously blamed on "keto".I'm interested in the side note about uric acid. what does it come from, red meats or protien? I don't think that I'm eating more of either with my keto way of eating. I don't see keto as an excuse to eat too much of anything including protien.
Keto does NOT cause any harm to kidney function - or any other function that we know of. The best trial to date is probably the one from Virta. So far, it is over 250 people plus a control group on standard treatment as doled out by doctors today. Hopefully, there are another four years of data coming. The results speak for themselves. Note that patients self-monitored and self-reported, so this was probably not perfect, either, but with constant feedback no doubt much better than our random internet posters who bummed on keto.
Clinical Outcomes
Safety
A common concern in the treatment of type 2 diabetes is hypoglycemia. In our clinical trial, no hypoglycemic events requiring assistance were reported. Additionally, treatment at Virta resulted in neutral or positive effects on markers of kidney and liver function.
While there a tiny dis-improvement in uric acid, serum creatinine a measure of kidney function improved more on keto than on the traditional (low-fat, calorie, etc.) treatment. Liver function was GREATLY improved on keto vs. traditional treatment.
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