[marcevans]

Forgive me if I'm repeating myself (or repeating another thread) but I was wondering what the benefits are for eating Keto (ie very low carbs) vs low carb (ie lower carbs, 100g a day). I understand that by going into ketosis A person will need less and less insulin and will be burning fat more efficiently, but I understand by eating less carbs in general (100g) a person will still reduce insulin and burn some fat.

I guess a lot of people on here have tried the Keto diet and found it too tough and reverted back to 'low carbs'.

 

[gotsomeold]

Oh, this should be an interesting discussion!

I usually eat under 40g/carb a day. I also usually eat too much protein to sustain nutritional ketosis...although I probably visit ketosis from time to time.

Just started reading Keto Clarity and doing some other research into just this question.

 

[Roxanne0312]

Forgive me if I'm repeating myself (or repeating another thread) but I was wondering what the benefits are for eating Keto (ie very low carbs) vs low carb (ie lower carbs, 100g a day). I understand that by going into ketosis A person will need less and less insulin and will be burning fat more efficiently, but I understand by eating less carbs in general (100g) a person will still reduce insulin and burn some fat.

I guess a lot of people on here have tried the Keto diet and found it too tough and reverted back to 'low carbs'.

I love my toes and eyes too much to revert back to 100g of carbs a day. More carbs I eat, more carbs my body require. Carbs makes us hungry.

 

[walkerwally1]

My body solved that question for itself. In order to keep my bg levels in a safe region and stop using the sulfonylurea that I was on ( which caused swings in bg levels way too high and low ) I need to keep my carbs down to 25g or less a day and protein around 70g or less a day. This puts me into dietary ketosis without thinking any more about it. It wasn't a goal but I feel better being there. How many carbs you can eat is a very personal thing and varies a great deal from one person to another.

 

[VeeJay]

For me, being in ketosis is a personal thing and keeps my BG under good control. Now that I have the Ketonix breathalizer, I am not doing the meter tests much because I know (from having tested and compared) that if I'm in the moderate to high reading on the Ketonix, my BG is in the 90-110 range. Well within my personal parameters.

I wouldn't recommend anyone try for ketosis right off the bat. Easing into it is a lot less stressful and gives one time to make adjustments both food-wise and mental-wise.

 

[jademuffin]

Put me in the "must be keto" pool. Just about any additional carb-load has me fighting cravings for days, which I tell you, probably makes my BH want to lock me in a room.

I had some cranberry sauce (HFCS) with the turkey dinner last night, and thought I was starving 2 hours later. Today I almost picked up some carmels at breakfast, and almost went for sandwich at lunch. Tonight I expect I will have to fight grabbing a bag of Fritos or Cheetos at dinner.

My usual routine has me on about 30g carb a day, incidental from leafy greens, eggs, Splenda, and HWC (and potentially some sauce additives).

 

[mbuster]

I eat because my body needs fuel. I eat what I eat because I don't want to have complications associated with high BG. I also prefer not use anything I don't have to to help me achieve that. If a time comes that I have to have help controlling my BG, I will call on insulin and continue to eat what I do now.

I try to eat 30 grams of carbs or less a day. i would almost bet I haven't had over 50 on any day in the last couple of years. I take that back, but I don't count carbs of resistant starch.

 

[jack412]

this is interesting for a someone on insulin, about ketogenic diets and hypos

http://www.coconutketones.com/pdfs/CahillGF_CerebMetab_1980_p234-242[1].pdf

30 minutes into video
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GC1vMBRFiwE

 

[grammaB]

Jack, your first link doesn't work, can you find another to the article that does? Thanks!

 

[Shanny]

The link is correct, but it refuses to parse properly. I've tried to post it here, but it still won't convert correctly - as you can see, the final seven characters are dropping off. So I have deliberately disabled the parsing process by adding a space just before the www. If you copy/paste the link, close up the space I added, and make sure the [1].pdf is included, it should take you to the site.

http:// www.coconutketones.com/pdfs/CahillGF_CerebMetab_1980_p234-242[1].pdf

(I hate when the dang software thinks it smarter than me! )

 

[Bree]

No more than 30 grams of carbs per day for me, as well. I would say the first 6 months was really tough because I was still into trying to find keto substitutes for the usual carny foods. I also allowed myself Off plan days (NOT a good idea). I'm another one who just can't eat more than 30 grams of carbs and below 70 grams of protein to keep my BGs under 100.

Now, after a year and a half or so, it's pretty smooth sailing. Protein can sometimes be a bit of a struggle, but the carb cravings are pretty much over (unless I go over on protein).. Now, I really can't think of any way I would rather eat. If I have cravings, it's pretty much always for allowed foods. The key was recipes .. Lots of them, and sweets and treats (many of which I completely made up myself).

I found this so important that I'm almost finished writing a cookbook and "how to" book. 68 recipes so far. The book is just for my family (including extended). I'm calling it "Sustainable". Because it is. Don't be fooled into thinking it's too hard. It really isn't. As with anything, once you form a habit, it's pretty much sealed unless you make a conscious choice to break it. Tastebuds change.

As for the benefits of keto, they are numerous and varied--fights against cardiovascular disease, cancers, many bacterial infections, Alzheimer's disease, obesity, and obviously diabetes,.. The list goes on.

 

[skb]

I was wondering what the benefits are for eating Keto (ie very low carbs) vs low carb (ie lower carbs, 100g a day).

The idea is to keep BG as low (within normal) as possible. The meter should decide the amount of carbs to be ingested. After all what are best friends for.

On your thoughts about insulin, we know that glycolysis generates a lot of AGEs (Advanced Glycation Endproducts) and these literally cause age. I therefore have inferred, that insulin is a sort of time keeper for the body. Like age can be measured in number of years or breaths, it could also be measured in the amount of insulin secreted during one's tenure. Use it up faster, age faster, IMO.

 

[marcevans]

On your thoughts about insulin, we know that glycolysis generates a lot of AGEs (Advanced Glycation Endproducts) and these literally cause age. I therefore have inferred, that insulin is a sort of time keeper for the body. Like age can be measured in number of years or breaths, it could also be measured in the amount of insulin secreted during one's tenure. Use it up faster, age faster, IMO.

Wow! So as well as everything else it's going to keep me looking young too? Do the benefits EVER end?!

Re. Testing a lot: I rememeber going to see my diabetic consultant one year and he asked me how many times a day I tested my BS. When I replied 3-5 times a day (not even as much as I test at the moment) he was very suspicious and told me I didn't need to test that often. It's somewhat worrying when a 'diabetic expert' seems out of touch. Obviously I've encountered this a lot over the past 20 years.

 

[Shanny]

And not much has changed in all those years . . . they still preach the party line of testing not needed, and they're still way outta touch. In the beginning my doc also complained that I tested too much, but after seeing the progress I made with all my testing and eating LCHF, he came around after the first year or two. Thank heaven for some few professionals who keep open minds.

 

[John.in.France]

As a new boy four and a bit years ago, I was surprised, and disappointed, to discover that "testing was unnecessary" for non insulin dependent diabetics - at least according to the official guidelines.

The explanation I suspect comes from history. Why worry the poor sod when there's no way to do anything about the high numbers he's going to see when we insist that he feeds himself with the very thing that causes them?

Once embraced as dogma, a major error in nutritional science forces you down a path that seeks to explain away the issues that arise. Failing that, don't look at them. Aristotle doesn't mention the moons of Jupiter - therefore they can't exist. And so it is with the low carb diet. It can't be good for diabetics - Ancel Keys tells us so

 

[gotsomeold]

Marcus, you are obviously a 'begin with the end in mind' kinda guy. I think you came here expecting you were going to have to go all the way to ketosis before you saw significant changes in your BG management protocol.

Now, I think you see the initial changes to lower carb eating have lowered/stabilized your BG levels, increased/stabilized your energy levels, and (I hope) simplified your exogenous insulin management regimen.

Congratulations! That is huge.

I now encourage you to take a deep breath - there are roses blooming everywhere.

Your body is in process of adjusting and, I suspect, healing. That takes time. Find a carb level where you are comfortable and pause to earn more about how you react to individual carb foods, give your body time to heal.

In a week or a month - you set the pace - you can decide if further changes are a good idea. If so, plan 'em, make 'em, pause again to adjust. Rinse and repeat.

The important thing is maintaining safe parameters by Eat To Your Meter testing. In your case, with intense exercise, more than eat to your meter testing.

I really hope you put the ketosis or no ketosis question aside for awhile. The real end-goal here is - many, many years from now - happily biking twenty miles with your grandchildren...and you are well on the way to enjoying that one!

Let your BG guide you right now. The time is coming you will be better prepared to begin driving it if you decide that is the best idea.

 

[gotsomeold]

Having said all that, thanks for asking the question! It is really making me do some research into what I think will be best for my T2 body.

 

[Janknitz]

There's a meme in the endocrinology community that good blood sugar control is dangerous and there's a higher all cause mortality for diabetics whose A1C goes into normal ranges. But this is when good BG control is achieved by MEDICATION instead of dietary control.

That's why I think doctors and diabetes professionals are wary of testing "too often". Most have NO CLUE what can be achieved by dietary control because the dietary advice they hand out is so wrong in the first place that anyone who follows it is doomed in the long term.

 

[marcevans]

Ok, I've been following all the great advice on this forum that I've had so far as well as from a couple of books and other LCHF/Keto websites.

Now, I worked out that I need 3200 cal a day. (based on my sex, height etc and my active lifestyle) So I'm working off 50g of carbs, which gives me 289g of fat and 102g of protein.

I don't think I'm getting anywhere near my fat or protein.

My typical meals look like this:

Breakfast: Kale smoothie (with spinach, MCT oil, coconut oil, Coconut milk, butter, cocoa powder, cinnamon powder, ex. virgin apple cider vinegar, pea protein powder, half to a full avocado, 5/6 almonds, water)

Lunch: Three eggs omelette or scrabbled, cooked in olive oil and some butter added to the mix. Maybe some chopped peppers, chedder cheese and an avocado (if i didn't eat one for brekky)

Dinner: Large bowl of green salad with halloumi cheese and lots of extra virgin olive oil.

Desert: small amount of berries with 2 tablespoons of extra thick double cream.

It changes from day to day and I'm constantly finding new ideas.

AS you all know I don't eat meat.

 

[Janknitz]

Sounds good. How is your BG after each of those meals?