Let's talk about cholesterol.

3956 Views 20 Replies 12 Participants Last post by kyteflyer, Aug 17, 2018

Cricket

Discussion Starter · Jun 10, 2018

If you are concerned about cholesterol, I highly recommend reading this article and watching the video. This is the first time I have really had a better understanding of it all.

Since the medical mainstream, especially that part of it that makes statin drugs and that part of it that promotes them, is so convinced that cholesterol is the driving force behind heart disease, they keep looking for more and more ways to slice and dice cholesterol. I’m not sure, but it’s probably all in an effort to find the Holy Grail of cholesterol measurements, the one that absolutely correlates with heart disease, and is found to be causal. None of which has happened yet. How to lower your cholesterol

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I am a type 1 diabetic, not Type 2. I have been on daily statins since 2002

I have gone by a model that has served me well the last 15 years with my lipid panel tests whereby my range has been the following since 2002:

Total cholesterol - 125 to 160 ave 145
LDH - 40 to 65 ave 55
HDL - 55 to 75 ave 65
Triglycerides - 50 to 80 ave 70
VLDL - 20
ratio HDL - 2.0%

My fat intake per day makes up about 15-20% with 50% protein and 30% carbs
My weight has been between 150 and 165 pds

Prior to 2002:
my total cholesterol levels were 225
HDL - 35
LDL - 130
Triglycerides 150
VLDL - 55

My fat intake per day made up about 35% with 25% protein and 40% carbs
weight 170 to 200

In the year 2001, at age 44, i required 3 bypass heart surgery despite being active most of the years since i was diagnosed with type 1 in 1977.

Since my heart surgery (2001) i have not had any further issues with my coronary arteries, heart muscle, abnormal cardio tests or lipid panels, weight.

My A1c 's from 1977 to 2003 ave 7.2, from 2004 to 2015 6.2, and from 2016 to current 5.2

I have wondered what a ketone or HFLC diet would do to improve my health and lab results but i couldnt be happier with my lipids and all the other lab values i have tested. My last lab on May 26 had each and every value within normal range and there are more than 60 lab values

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itissteve

· #3 · Jun 10, 2018

Hearts Jounrey said:
I have wondered what a ketone or HFLC diet would do to improve my health and lab results but i couldnt be happier

Tennis great Bill Tilden said, "Never change a winning game; always change a losing game."

Sounds like you have a winning game, Hearts...

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Hearts Jounrey

· #4 · Jun 10, 2018

Below is a partial lyric from the Eagles 1973 tune Desperado

"Don't you draw the queen of diamonds, boy
She'll beat you if she's able
You know the queen of hearts is always your best bet"

Well diabetes is the Queen of Diamonds and achieving good control is the Queen of Hearts

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rsfletcher

· #5 · Jun 11, 2018

The only time I experienced serious health implications was when I was on statins. My cholesterol wasn't even high but my doctor said that because I was diabetic it was important to get my cholesterol down much lower.
So - I went on cholesterol meds and it completely had a negative impact on my quality of life. I lost strength in my legs, was prone to ,muscle pulls and muscle cramps - I said the hell with this - and stopped taking them.

Living with type 1 since 1966 - I never had an issue with cholesterol or statins but all of the sudden it suddenly came in to fashion. Since I stopped taking them I've been feeling a lot better. I didn't need these statins - my doctor made a mistake as doctors do ...

Having said that, I've had three non diabetic friends whose cholesterol levels were never high but still needed triple bypass surgery due to clogged arteries. Maybe they would have been better off if they were taking statins for the last 20 years. They are certainly taking them now ...

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mbuster

· #6 · Jun 11, 2018

I'm still waiting to see the proof that cholesterol causes heart issues just because its there. It hasn't been proven yet since it has been hypothesized, has it?

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xring

· #7 · Jun 12, 2018

I've read several studies on cholesterol & its supposed connection to heart disease. Whenever the study is not funded by drug companies, they show no relation whatsoever.
I've never taken a statin or daily aspirin or any other drug pushed on everyone, especially diabetics "to protect them."

One guy at my diabetes support group was a retired pharmacist who got very angry at me when I voiced my opinion during a discussion about statins & brought several articles about their risks & whether there was any benefit. Naturally, being a medical professional, he insisted they helped him. We didn't see him for several meetings. When he came back, he had quite a story to tell. He was relaxing, watching TV & when he tried to get up, his legs wouldn't work. Since he lived alone, he spent four days on the floor until someone came to check on him. He wasn't able to crawl; no bathroom, no water, no food. After two weeks in the hospital & two more months in a convalescent home, he went home - in a wheelchair permanently. At the next meeting, he had a full-time nurse. He said his doctor brushed aside the statin risk by saying, "complications are rare." I doubt that is comforting to him. He went from being an active, tennis-playing 70-year old to a disabled person, unable to walk - no use of his legs. He hasn't been to a meeting for a year & (from the way he sounded at that meeting,) we suspect he committed suicide.
To be clear, I have no problem with assuming the risk of any drug....provided there is a clear benefit that makes it worth the risk. I don't think that's the case with statins.

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rsfletcher

· #8 · Jun 12, 2018

xring said:
To be clear, I have no problem with assuming the risk of any drug....provided there is a clear benefit that makes it worth the risk. I don't think that's the case with statins.

Interesting story - a similar thing happened to me. About two weeks after taking statins no strength in my legs - it was making everything difficult.

A regular part of my routine is to lift a 16 foot - 80 pound canoe on my shoulders and carry it a short distance - 100 yards to the river that runs by my place. It's never been a problem until I was on statins.

I tried to lift the canoe, my legs buckled and down I went along with a 80 pound canoe that I was trying to carry. I was very fortunate I did not hurt myself when I went down - attribute that to my football and hockey past where you learn how to get hit or fall. But all that aside - my cholesterol was not high and suddenly I couldn't do the things that normally kept me healthy.

It was an easy decision to stop taking them - when I told my doctor I thought he was going to blow a gasket. I told him just because he is a doctor doesn;t mean he's always right and if he was a human being - being wrong was normal.

If looks could kill I would be dead now LOL ... :smile2:

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mbuster

· #9 · Jun 19, 2018

Got this from a Peter Attia newsletter, lipoprotein Lp(a) may be a key link to heart disease. Link to the article in the Journal of the American College of Cardiology

Abstract
Evidence that elevated lipoprotein(a) (Lp[a]) levels contribute to cardiovascular disease (CVD) and calcific aortic valve stenosis (CAVS) is substantial. Development of isoform-independent assays, in concert with genetic, epidemiological, translational, and pathophysiological insights, have established Lp(a) as an independent, genetic, and likely causal risk factor for CVD and CAVS. These observations are consistent across a broad spectrum of patients, risk factors, and concomitant therapies, including patients with low-density lipoprotein cholesterol <70 mg/dl. Statins tend to increase Lp(a) levels, possibly contributing to the “residual risk” noted in outcomes trials and at the bedside. Recently approved proprotein convertase subtilisin/kexin-type 9 inhibitors and mipomersen lower Lp(a) 20% to 30%, and emerging RNA-targeted therapies lower Lp(a) >80%. These approaches will allow testing of the “Lp(a) hypothesis” in clinical trials. This review summarizes the current landscape of Lp(a), discusses controversies, and reviews emerging therapies to reduce plasma Lp(a) levels to decrease risk of CVD and CAVS.

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chargette

· #10 · Jun 24, 2018

I stopped taking statins because of lower back pain. Other members of my family experienced the same thing. Since I've started eating LCHF my cholesterol numbers are much better.

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fjk2013

· #11 · Jun 24, 2018 (Edited)

Back in June of 2017 at my annual exam; my physician put me on atorvastatin 10mg and a preventative since that is what he assigns all his diabetic patients. For over 4 years while as a T2 diabetic I escaped the statin; the physician profoundly apologized that I was missed. I replied I do not want to be on a statin. I caved in and started; well it raised my fasting glucose by 16-20 mg/dl. I did not like it but I pushed through for the next three months. When we next met for a check up I vented about the increase in fasting BS; he said it should not have raised it but it did indeed. I told him based on my results my cholesterol on the lab reports is too low; he was pleased with the low numbers; he said that is good. I told him I would entertain his folly on cholesterol meds even though my family has no history of heart disease or high cholesterol but to put me on pravastatin which does not increase fasting BS as much as atorvastatin. He put me on a pediatric dose. I followed orders my results came back fine no question; a little lower than when I was not on statins. January 2018, I decided to cut the pill in half so at that time I was on half a pediatric dose. Lab numbers at the end of March 2018 came in only 8 point higher than December. So I figured lets push it more; I stop the statin; May 15, 2018 I had my lipids test at our local hospital wellness center and fessed up to the nurse what I did. My results came back and she said there was no reason in her opinion that I should continue with the statin at the pediatric or half pediatric dose. My numbers in May were close to what I estimated; I was another 7 points higher post the half pediatric dose. Still well within the labs ranges. So, I just stopped. I will let my physician know about it the next time I need to see him which may not be until next year?

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smorgan

· #12 · Jun 24, 2018

fjk2013 said:
Back in June of 2017 at my annual exam; my physician put me on atorvastatin 10mg and a preventative since that is what he assigns all his diabetic patients. For over 4 years while as a T2 diabetic I escaped the statin; the physician profoundly apologized that I was missed. I replied I do not want to be on a statin. I caved in and started; well it raised my fasting glucose by 16-20 mg/dl. I did not like it but I pushed through for the next three months. When we next met for a check up I vented about the increase in fasting BS; he said it should not have raised it but it did indeed. I told him based on my results my cholesterol on the lab reports is too low; he was pleased with the low numbers; he said that is good. I told him I would entertain his folly on cholesterol meds even though my family has no history of heart disease or high cholesterol but to put me on pravastatin which does not increase fasting BS as much as atorvastatin. He put me on a pediatric dose. I followed orders my results came back fine no question; a little lower than when I was not on statins. January 2018, I decided to cut the pill in half so at that time I was on half a pediatric dose. Lab numbers at the end of March 2018 came in only 8 point higher than December. So I figured lets push it more; I stop the statin; May 15, 2018 I had my lipids test at our local hospital wellness center and fessed up to the nurse what I did. My results came back and she said there was no reason in her opinion that I should continue with the statin at the pediatric or half pediatric dose. My numbers in May were close to what I estimated; I was another 7 points higher post the half pediatric dose. Still well within the labs ranges. So, I just stopped. I will let my physician know about it the next time I need to see him which may not be until next year?

I'm glad everything worked out in the end. Hopefully, you'll see no permanent damage from the statin. As for me, no doctor can "put me on" ANYTHING. All he can do is talk and scribble on pieces of paper. Then, I research and I decide whether the paper is going to the pharmacy to get filled or into the dustbin. My statin, beta-blocker and Metformin scrips all ended up in the dustbin right after my initial diagnosis. I've been just fine for many years since.

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etherea

· #13 · Aug 11, 2018

My doctor can't believe how high my good cholesterol is. At my last check (work physical, not regular doctor) the good cholesterol was so high that their machine couldn't read it. The machine only went up to 100. The machine couldn't read the bad cholesterol because of that. My triglycerides were 97-great! I was prescribed statins, but don't take them.

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Hearts Jounrey

· #14 · Aug 11, 2018

Congrat Etherea on HDL results. Last time i heard of someone with a HDL 100 was Forest Gump after he ran from Greenbow Alabama to Calif and back

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etherea

· #15 · Aug 11, 2018

Last time I had a checkup with my regular doctor it was 79.

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Hearts Jounrey

· #16 · Aug 11, 2018

for a second i thought your last checkup with your regular Dr was in 1979 in which case time has been kind to you

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rsfletcher

· #17 · Aug 13, 2018

I've never had high cholesterol but a few years ago my doctor tried putting me on statins. He told me I would have to take them for the rest of my life and someone who had or has lived with diabetes for as long as I've had is equivalent to someone who has already had a heart attack.
As I had just finished a long distance run - hearing this just reinforced the fact that my doctor isn't really a doctor but a guy who is authorized to write prescriptions. At this time I still had respect for his profession.
I started on the statins and they just about killed me - erratic BG readings, muscle pain and loss of strength.
So I stopped taking them, it took about a month to get back to normal and I've managed to avoid this doctor ever sense. It's such a racket! I don;t want to be his customer - just a patient - there's a difference ....

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CMartin

· #18 · Aug 14, 2018

etherea said:
My doctor can't believe how high my good cholesterol is. At my last check (work physical, not regular doctor) the good cholesterol was so high that their machine couldn't read it. The machine only went up to 100. The machine couldn't read the bad cholesterol because of that. My triglycerides were 97-great! I was prescribed statins, but don't take them.

Please what do you do ? Just keto ? Or apple cider vinegar in the morning ? Green tea every afternoon ? Or exercise ? Or all of it ? Thank you.

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etherea

· #19 · Aug 14, 2018

CMartin said:
Please what do you do ? Just keto ? Or apple cider vinegar in the morning ? Green tea every afternoon ? Or exercise ? Or all of it ? Thank you.

Keto with occasional green tea and walking. He says I have good genes. I asked him where I got them and he looked puzzled and said "from your parents of course". I don't think so! :laugh2:
My parents were never that healthy. I think it must be the keto.

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Hearts Jounrey

· #20 · Aug 14, 2018

I still have good jeans as i was able to keep 4 pairs of my Levis Vintage 501 single stitch from the 1970's during my 1st year in high school size 31 and i didnt get them from my parents.

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