[Snorebaby]

Well....just got back from the "Diabetic Clinic".....presented by.....Novo Nordisk!!

So much conflicting information in the booklet and "Meal Planning" guide. I did the "smile and nod" routine at the behest of Snorebabe. I do like the planner with the serving portions of the foods laid out in 15g carb amounts (if they contain carbs).

The one thing I laugh about is the recommended amount of carbs per meal for me. I am supposed to have 60-75g of carbs PER MEAL x 3, not including snacks. That is 180-225g a DAY! I was probably eating just a little more than that normally probably 200-250g a day and diagnosed as diabetic with an A1C of 10.6 and a fasting BG of 260mg/dl.

They also recommend a 7 A1C or under is good. That is 154mg/dl. I am shooting for under 140 and my last 14 day average is 134 with a 3x a day BG check before meals. I am still above my number of 140 with all my testing since I started (8/16) but the average is coming down as it is at 158 or 7.2 A1C today.

I work for a VERY LARGE pharma company and know the way this works. They keep you on a higher carb count, manage your diabetes with medicine that they make and when you can't control it with their "diet", give you more medicine that they make all the while billing your insurance company an outrageous amount for the medicine.

I didn't discuss the LCHF lifestyle as Snorebabe would have pummeled me as I can get "arguementative" sometimes. :vs_no_no_no:

Just thought I would share!

 

[VeeJay]

Not surprising at all that they are pushing the ADA mantra. So glad you visited here before the clinic so you know enough to critique their recommendations.

I didn't discuss the LCHF lifestyle as Snorebabe would have pummeled me as I can get "arguementative" sometimes.

The woman knows best!

 

[moon]

This was a shock to me when I got diabetes. My dentist is a conspiracy theorist, and after my diabetes adventure, I went to him and said: now I have a bit of it in me too - and started talking about Big Pharma.

What was most remarkable, is that doctors and DEs were complicit. Some don't know better, but they should. When I got radical and speedy control of my diabetes via LCHF (though more LC in the early days), a nurse wanted me to give a talk to newly-diagnosed diabetics about my success and how I achieved it. Didn't take long for her to learn that couldn't be done - because of my low carb. Information is deliberately, and tragically, suppressed.

When I saw Glucerna in the pharmacy section as if it were a treatment for diabetes, I innocently scanned the back of it for carb count. I was learning. Yeow! Then I wondered, who puts out this stuff? Ah - Abbott Labs ... now it makes sense.

Conspiracy theory confirmed.

 

[Bounty]

I work for a VERY LARGE pharma company and know the way this works. They keep you on a higher carb count, manage your diabetes with medicine that they make and when you can't control it with their "diet", give you more medicine that they make all the while billing your insurance company an outrageous amount for the medicine.

So, now that you've let the cat out of the bag...what's your backup job? :biggrin:

 

[Daytona]

So I saw an endo + CDE for the first time this week and ran into the same thing. Rather than becomming upset (for all the reasons people have shared here and in similar threads) or arguing, I decided to look at it a little differently.

I am viewing their advice not as a way to keep me sick but setting expectations for what they will give me grief for:

* 45g carbs / meal = She promises to not scold me for eating something unless it's MORE than 45g carbs.
* 7% A1C = She promises to not give me the third degree unless my A1C is greater than 7.
* 2h PP < 180 = She promises to not get on my case about how I'm managing my insulin boluses as long as I don't go over 180 after 2h.

Essentially, instead of looking at everything she recommended in a negative light, I chose to look at it as a contract with my doctor. If I am achieving these targets, then I don't have to worry about what she'll say at my next appointment.

Since I have such a poor relationship with the medical profession, this was a revelation for me. I now know exactly what I need to do in order to not dread my next appointment. It will save me a ton of anxiety and help me maintain a healthier relationship with my new doc.

I'm not saying that I don't agree with y'all. I do and have argued ADA vs. AACE vs. Bernstein with the best of them. Just sharing how I decided to deal with this disconnect going forward so that I can get the care that I need.

 

[Bounty]

I'm not saying that I don't agree with y'all. I do and have argued ADA vs. AACE vs. Bernstein with the best of them. Just sharing how I decided to deal with this disconnect going forward so that I can get the care that I need.

And there it is. We "veterans" of this caretaker-vs-patient thing have learned, over time, that it's a go-along-to-get-along thing. You know what medications you need to take care of this...and it's all about the game you have to play to get them.

I think that 'here', in these type forums, we indoctrinate the naïve to how that game is played. IMO

 

[moon]

Wonderful way of looking at it, Daytona. Plus, as the relationship develops and our doc gets to know us, they do often stop trying to stuff us into whatever patient box they were taught, and become true partners in our health. At least that's my experience.

I had an auto-immune disease already in my 20's and was inspired by Norman Cousins and the relationship he had with doc. I wanted that always. Don't remember which book - either Anatomy of an Illness or Healing Heart (hey, it has been several decades!). He had a way he wanted to heal and address his illness, and although his doctor had different ideas and was absolutely opposed to Norman's, they had a lot of mutual respect and successfully worked together on their common goal: Norman's healing.

In the end, they taught each other a lot, and that's the best sort of doc/patient relationship.

 

[Snorebaby]

Bounty, I actually work in the Veterinary division of said pharma. So I think I am safe for now:vs_cool:

Daytona, I think that is the way Snorebabe and I approached the diagnosis. He was looking at it as a typical patient that would not do the right things and basically just be hard headed. We took it as a challenge. He wanted to put me on Statin and we told him to let us try Niacin first. I think he is expecting not much of a change due to his experiences. Will he be in for a surprise.

There were several folks in the class that seemed to not want to change. They were mostly pre-diabetics not taking any meds. So I can understand my doctors position.

My goal is to get as low as possible and reduce/eliminate the need for meds.

Thanks for all the discussion and personal experiences. I love this site!

 

[smorgan]

I don't have much of a problem with "conspiracy theories", but I don't think it really fits here. Of all the health care entities purveying these abominable ideas, many are just following what they've been taught and honestly don't know better. As for the more well-informed, their entire belief system here is firmly built upon their cherished myths about fats. In the context of reducing stress on the glucose equilibrium/metabolism system, fats are the ONLY meaningful alternative to carbs. They can supply all the energy which used to be had from carbs. Proteins could too, but not very cleanly (nitrogen, urea, etc.) and much of that by way of turning into glucose anyways, so not a real change. PUFA (the only fats they recommend under their demented mythology) are bad news. They create AGEs, systemic inflammation and have other negatives.

So, that necessitates increasing saturated fats. That is something that in their world view simply cannot be imagined. So, they clutch at anything which they can find other than the obvious solution, whether "low-glycemic", calorie restriction, exercise or whatever.

This is the corner they painted themselves into with 60 years of junk science and government/industry interference. What followed is simply logical.

 

[DDave]

I work for a VERY LARGE pharma company and know the way this works. They keep you on a higher carb count, manage your diabetes with medicine that they make and when you can't control it with their "diet", give you more medicine that they make all the while billing your insurance company an outrageous amount for the medicine.

This is very disheartening although not surprising. When I was first diagnosed I compiled a list of Web browser bookmarks in my quest for information. The first site I bookmarked has turned out to be the least helpful and will be the first one deleted. I feel absolutely no need to ever visit that site again other than out of curiosity to see if they are still pushing advice that will guarantee that eventually all Type 2 diabetics will be on insulin.

The useless site in question? I'm sure many of you have already guessed it. The American Diabetes Association website --http://www.diabetes.org/

 

[Katieboosmama]

I had appointments with both a Diabetic Nutritionist and and Endo, Both agreed that my dietary changes were controlling my diabetes very well. However both had to "go over" the ADA and AMA recommendations with me. They had to "toe the company line" so to speak. Endo even stated he was a conspiracy theorist at heart lol. I think that the Drs for the most part are used to dealing with a complacent patient that WANTS medication so they do not have to change their behavior. We live in a medicate your health not a manage your health society. People want to "have their cake, and eat it too" (see what I did there lol :vs_cool When a Dr see's a patient that wants to think outside the box and try alternatives to what they view as the "norm" they don't know what to do with them. Our only recourse is to let our results speak for themselves :vs_smile:

 

[Snorebaby]

The useless site in question? I'm sure many of you have already guessed it. The American Diabetes Association website --http://www.diabetes.org/

I bookmarked the site the day I got home from the doctor. Of course I didn't rely on that one alone and Snorebabe and I searched alot of sites. She came across this site and we love it for the people and information.

I read your post and thought I would visit the ADA site again. I went to the recipes and I am still amazed on the Carb and Sugar content of their "healthy" choices.:surprise:

I can't wait to get back to the Dr. to see the look on his face when he sees my numbers! He basically wrote me off to using insulin in the near future. He didn't say it directly, but you could tell by the body language and tone of voice.

 

[DDave]

I read your post and thought I would visit the ADA site again. I went to the recipes and I am still amazed on the Carb and Sugar content of their "healthy" choices.:surprise:

The ADA seems to not care about diabetics nearly as much as they do about keeping their corporate masters happy.

:surprise: I can't believe I just typed that. I used to make fun of people for posting things like that on Internet forums. But I really don't know how else to explain the "advice" that they post on their site.

I can't wait to get back to the Dr. to see the look on his face when he sees my numbers! He basically wrote me off to using insulin in the near future. He didn't say it directly, but you could tell by the body language and tone of voice.

Yep. I got a similar message from my doc. Although I think he was intrigued by my lab results. I get the feeling he is hedging his bets though as to whether or not I'll be able to keep it up.

We shall see.