[foxl]

Go figure.

Unusual insulin protocol that is working ...

T1.5 has its quirks ... and so does Levemir! I have been experimenting with Levemir's peak to see what works. And this has worked, for a couple weeks, anyhow

8U Levemir plus 2U Novolog at bedtime (I am in the 120's then) ... 3 more U Lev at 8 am ... 3U Novo with (low carb) lunch at 9 am ... repeat. Now, dinnertime used to be my highest need, and I used to have to use 4 - 5U Novo to cover my (still low-carb) dinner, and with varying success, then.

I have said before, once I go high, it is much harder to correct, but this is ... so unusual, I felt I should remark on it. Get the basal right, and the bolus apparently does follow (I do recall reading this somewhere ;-)) ... with this pattern, I wake in the low 90's and my pp peaks are maybe in the 120 - low 130's. This has worked for a couple of weeks, now.

 

[naynay]

That is strange. I've been trying to work with my Levemir to help lower my fbg's, and I do have DP severe. I am currently taking 58 units of Levemir at bedtime, but I think I might try taking it a little earlier in the evening to see if that helps. I do use Humalog as well, and that is usually anywhere between 12-20 units, depending on my pre-meal bg and I try to calculate how much more I need for whatever carbs I will be eating without overshooting it (which results in a hypo). I've tried splitting the Levemir to two shots throughout the day/evening, but that was even worse in the morning. I also noticed that if I take more than 58 units, my numbers are worse? Does that make any sense? 58 seems to be the magic number, and that only keeps me to around 180's. Sometimes it is lower, but usually the 180's for fbg.

 

[foxl]

Yes, too much basal can make your liver try to compensate. NOT that anyone professional will acknowledge it.

I just had a T1 at another site comment that it was "alarming" that I used 2 units novolog, to correct from the 120's. I wanted to say, okay, I have some IR ... get over it. REALLY.

 

[naynay]

Why do you guys even bother with other forums? This is the ONLY one I will visit. I visited those "other" diabetic forums when I was first prowling and they were not friendly people! I love this forum, and everything I need is here.

So really, too much basal makes the liver overcompensate? I will have to google this. Again, the stuff we are NOT told is amazing! Maybe by the time I hit real old age I will finally find out all I need to know...Wow.

 

[foxl]

NEVER found it by googling.

I have some old friends who stick on other fora.

And there is a whole other culture, on FB. Not always the brightest .... some of em.

 

[naynay]

I found this article through googling. It is very interesting regarding the "too much basal insulin" for Type 2's. Let me know what your thoughts are on this please. I think I may be using too much basal and it might be hampering my weight loss efforts as well as my control issues. Perhaps I should be using more bolus?

Primary Care Metabolic Group - Are we giving our diabetic patients too much basal insulin?

 

[foxl]

Too simple, maybe?

I have never heard these rules of thumb, before, though, it is a start!

 

[naynay]

Maybe too simple! Perhaps I need to up my insulin though according to this..see how little tidbits of information picked up can lead to these things?

 

[MCS]

I had to find out this same exact thing with Lantus. Didn't matter if I injected 10u or 40u my BG never changed, my liver was more than capable of keeping up with the demand the insulin was putting on my body. I stopped injecting and my BG level went down, go figure. This is when I had an epiphany that there was far more involved in why your BG level was at the level it was at.

Yes, too much basal can make your liver try to compensate. NOT that anyone professional will acknowledge it.

I just had a T1 at another site comment that it was "alarming" that I used 2 units novolog, to correct from the 120's. I wanted to say, okay, I have some IR ... get over it. REALLY.

 

[naynay]

I had to find out this same exact thing with Lantus. Didn't matter if I injected 10u or 40u my BG never changed, my liver was more than capable of keeping up with the demand the insulin was putting on my body. I stopped injecting and my BG level went down, go figure. This is when I had an epiphany that there was far more involved in why your BG level was at the level it was at.

Okay MCS, you need to explain this one to me. Did you take Lantus alone, or did you bolus as well with meals? All I know is that my fbg is always high, and even after I bolus for breakfast according to my bg, and then eat something like a string cheese or two for breakfast, my numbers don't usually come down. Sometimes they go up! After eating a string cheese? Something doesn't seem right with this. A string cheese has less than 1 gram of carb, no sugar, no starch. What gives? Perhaps you could help me understand all this since you have such a great background and understanding of all this stuff. Sometimes I feel very stupid and misinformed. Thanks!

 

[foxl]

It's that sat-fat - insulin resistance connection.

Or so, many would tell us.

I think it is a dairy protein thing, personally. Replacing cheese with calorie-equivalent coconut oil on a green veg seems to help me!

 

[MCS]

Okay MCS, you need to explain this one to me. Did you take Lantus alone, or did you bolus as well with meals? All I know is that my fbg is always high, and even after I bolus for breakfast according to my bg, and then eat something like a string cheese or two for breakfast, my numbers don't usually come down. Sometimes they go up! After eating a string cheese? Something doesn't seem right with this. A string cheese has less than 1 gram of carb, no sugar, no starch. What gives? Perhaps you could help me understand all this since you have such a great background and understanding of all this stuff. Sometimes I feel very stupid and misinformed. Thanks!

I was just using Lantus alone. I had andrenal issue going on at the time as well. Lantus is very slow, slow enought that if your body wants to be at 100 your liver has able time to keep up. Once I stopped injecting, my body stopped reacting to the insulin. I also took large doses of GABA to counter act the adrenal out put. This combination lowered my BG. This is what enlightened me to look into other reasons why my body wanted to be at a particular BG level and what I could do about it.

 

[naynay]

MCS, so how did you know you had adrenal issues going on at the time? Was it something that was tested? I've heard of adrenal burnout before. I've often wondered if I have this problem. Also, what is GABA? I'm going to google it, but prefer to hear your explanation. I see in your signature that you were dx'd at 11, and now a 4.6. However, I also see you went from an 11 to a 5.6. How long did this take you? I get frustrated because I see people drop huge amounts within 3-6 months once starting LC/HF WOE. I'm still struggling with my numbers (and of course have many things that could be a factor such as severe Insulin Resistance, menopausal, stress and anxiety!).
I hope you don't mind if I pick your brain here. Just trying to understand all this stuff. You seem to be the "go to" person. Thanks.

 

[Anthill]

8U Levemir plus 2U Novolog at bedtime (I am in the 120's then) ...

What time was that Linda?

3 more U Lev at 8 am ... 3U Novo with (low carb) lunch at 9 am ... repeat. Now, dinnertime used to be my highest need, and I used to have to use 4 - 5U Novo to cover my (still low-carb) dinner, and with varying success, then.

Was the evening Levmir shot would be 8PM??

I have said before, once I go high, it is much harder to correct, but this is ... so unusual, I felt I should remark on it. Get the basal right, and the bolus apparently does follow (I do recall reading this somewhere ;-)) ... with this pattern, I wake in the low 90's and my pp peaks are maybe in the 120 - low 130's. This has worked for a couple of weeks, now.

Well Lin, No matter what type you are as everyone different. With insulin dependency, you have to think ahead of what's happening like sitting in a office chair or riding a horse as this will make you BG right off the rails like what

 

[Storm]

Yeah I'm fighting the dawn effect too. Raised my bedtime bolus 5 addl units with no change. Frustrating.

 

[MCS]

Sorry for sidetracking this thread Linda.

I had determined I had adrenal issues after I had been doing hard physically work in the heat of the south (110-120 heat index). My BG level went up 100-120 baseline and would not come back down regardless of what I did or how much Lantus I injected. Physically I felt as if I was running a marathon, constant high energy, elevated state of being. I was in flight or fight mode with no trigger. The GABA which is found naturally in your body is the turn off switch for adrenalin hormones. Once adrenanlin hormones are released GABA is also released to bring your body back to normal. If you have low GABA supply, once you get to an elevated state you have nothing to bring you back down. I am a little over 3yrs now as a Dxed D. The 5.6 was maybe 3-4 months after I was Dxed. Problem was I think I lowered my A1C to quickly, 18mnths after Dxed I had to have to have a quadruple by-pass. 3 yrs prior to all of this I was as healthy as a horse with no signs of CVD. Look into aspirin, it is quite useful in lowering inflammation. Also I had my testosterone checked which was low and can impact BG level as well. My wife who is D also had all of her hormones checked and adjusted along with cortisol from a 24hr saliva test. She is on no meds currently, just diet and exercise. Other things I had to consider as well was digestion, IR, insulin signalling, etc.

MCS, so how did you know you had adrenal issues going on at the time? Was it something that was tested? I've heard of adrenal burnout before. I've often wondered if I have this problem. Also, what is GABA? I'm going to google it, but prefer to hear your explanation. I see in your signature that you were dx'd at 11, and now a 4.6. However, I also see you went from an 11 to a 5.6. How long did this take you? I get frustrated because I see people drop huge amounts within 3-6 months once starting LC/HF WOE. I'm still struggling with my numbers (and of course have many things that could be a factor such as severe Insulin Resistance, menopausal, stress and anxiety!).
I hope you don't mind if I pick your brain here. Just trying to understand all this stuff. You seem to be the "go to" person. Thanks.

 

[naynay]

Okay, so the GABA then was for the issue of "anxiety". I did google GABA and found it to be a natural alternative to taking a SSRI (like I do with Zoloft). Unfortunately I've been on Zoloft for 7 years, and although I just lessened the amount of my dosage from 100 mg to 50 mg, I'm not ready to come off of it just yet. It works for me so I think I'll stay the course with it. Besides, I'm not able to use hormone replacement for menopausal issues due to a hereditary blood clotting disorder, so Zoloft would be what they prescribe for someone in my situation. In any case, the adrenal issue is a possibility with me as well, since when I am doing my Zumba or cardio exercise, I truly put forth as much effort as my body is willing to give (in easy terms, I really "get into" it) and I will check my numbers afterwards and they are always high; like in the mid 200's high. I don't get that. Could it be that I have difficulty with the adrenal issue as well? I guess I should discuss with the doc at next appt. I just don't understand why I am fighting so hard to get my numbers down and stable with everything I've given up and the LC/HF WOE I've adopted. I'm looking for the link to why this is such a difficult road when I've willingly stopped eating all that is bad and tried to put in everything that is good. HELP! You seem to have such a wonderful understanding, and I know it is on yourself that you have found the correct answer. Just trying to "pick your brain" to figure out what isn't jiving in my own body. It just loves to mess with me...it really does betray me alot. I don't know why; I don't abuse it. Thanks for all your help and any future help you can provide MCS. Hugs!

 

[foxl]

My perception is that GABA makes me run high! So does Niacin (which is in the literature) ... I am weird.

Peter, yes, 8 am 3U Lev, 8pm 8U Lev. What I think is weird is bolusing at bedtime ... seems kind of risky, but it works. It "lets" the Lev cover me the rest of the night!

 

[MCS]

The GABA should not interfere with the Zoloft, but I am not a doctor, you may want to bring this up at your next appt. When your BG level goes up after exercise how long does it take to come back down. Your body has a system of reserve energy it uses. First it uses glucose in your blood stream, then glycogen in your muscles, then your reserves kick in from your liver. The first 2 energy reserves can be used up as quickly as 15-20 minutes depending the exercise and the person. Once your liver kicks in some people with D have a faulty system, either they get to much glucose or to little insulin. You can try supplementing your diet before the exercise with a few carbs, say peanut butter on a whole wheat cracker. Its a real balancing act to figure out how much glucose you are going to burn for the exercise you are doing. You can also look into D-ribose. I took this on days when I was working in the heat about every hour along with 4 grams of pure sugar in 500ml of lemon water. D-ribose helps your body make and store glycogen, using the glucose thats in your blood stream. I would rise into the mid 90's during heavy physical excersion, but would fall rapidly back into the 80's once I got calmed down and rested. I took the D-ribose with out exercising and noticed a drop of my BG level, but it slowly rebounds over several hours. I do not take it unless I am doing hard physical work.

 

[MCS]

I think GABA works best for those that are deficient. GABA increases Human Growth Hormone production which may cause some a rise in BG level. I can tell by my FBG level whether I need to back off the GABA or not.

My perception is that GABA makes me run high! So does Niacin (which is in the literature) ... I am weird.

Peter, yes, 8 am 3U Lev, 8pm 8U Lev. What I think is weird is bolusing at bedtime ... seems kind of risky, but it works. It "lets" the Lev cover me the rest of the night!