[ChecMark]

Sugar levels were off the charts (320) and doctor recently put me on insulin, plus I am still taking Metformin and Diamicron until my sugars come down.

I have been sleeping almost around the clock for two weeks; I'm very weak; lighheaded; cramping in my hands; really sore in my lower legs and feet. No energy. Dehydrated. Never felt worse in my life. Scared.

Can't find the combination of my symptoms anywhere.

 

[Shanny]

<edit> . . . listen to adjitater - he knows what he's talking about.

 

[Adjitater]

What you describe sounds like DKA Have you tested for ketones.

 

[ChecMark]

What is DKA? And "ketones"?

 

[Adjitater]

When your blood glucose is too high like yours was your body will start burning fat and muscle tissue to provide energy. When the body does this it creates ketogenic amino acids. If the level of them gets to high then the bloods ph becomes to acidic and can cause the things you have described. The body filters them out through your kidneys and they can be tested for with ketostix that you just dip in a urine sample and match the color to guide on the side of the bottle. So DKA stands for diabetic keto acidosis.

 

[ChecMark]

Thanks. I have a feeling my doctor mentioned this to me, but, at the time, I was so light-headed not much registered with me. I have been gradually increasing my insulin dose, up to 15 units yesterday, but my sugars don't seem to be changing much. Still above 20 today. I guess it takes time, but it is frustrating to be so lethargic.

 

[Jen]

Hi CheckMark - if you are unable to bring your blood sugar down, even with insulin, you might want to make trip to the ER. It does sound like DKA, as Adjitater suggested, and you will need some medical intervention to regain control. Don't wait too long...it can be serious. In the meantime, restrict your carb intake, do not exercise when your blood sugar is so high, and be sure to drink lots of water.

I hope you're OK. Please let us know how you're doing.

Jen

 

[Richard157]

I agree that you probably have DKA, and that can be very dangerous. You should go to the ER immediately! If they can get you back on track, then your insulin at home should work very well, if you still need it. What type of diabetic are you? Type 1, or type 2?

 

[ChecMark]

New Symptoms

I am attending an emergency clinic run by an endocrinologist tomorrow morning. Hopefully this will help.

My sugars were moderating, but I ran out of my test strips to confirm. I had upped my dosage to 15 units twice a day. They are apparently going to get me some test strips tomorrow.

 

[rinfrance]

I see that Jen said do not excercise. Thats certainly different to that which we have been told and for that matter how it affected me.
The taking of insulin without regular testing is potentially dangerous, you must be aware of your blood sugars and how your body reacts etc to various things.
I know my body and can control it better than the doctors now, having a good idea of various effects, so for example an injection of les than 16 does exactly nothing for me. My evening is 70 of novo mix, and the other 3 are about 24 eg AM midday and night. Everyone though is different, that is why it is essential that you know how your body reacts. A friend, on the same product just has 16 morning and night (I do have a feeling though that if he were to check just before going to bed he may have a shock)
The hand and joint problems may be down to metformin, the symptom is known as either clicky finger or sticky finger, holding your hands above your head for periods reduces this(apparently this condition may be liknked to gout, although why in the fingers and not feet as with gout gawd only knows but it works.). You may next get frozen shoulder, your middle fingers become inflammed and painful. This has now been proven apparently by an Indian agency / doctor. After stopping the levemir (metform) the items have returned to normal in about 3 weeks.
The depression / scared situation on waking seems in many to possibly be allied to wheat, specifically hard wheat. Avoid wheat like the plague.
I know this is for me, but wheat beer flaked out in 20 minutes, malted barley, literally drink it all day, blended whisky out in 20 mins keep going all night on malt.
Same for breads, and anything else with wheat in it, cakes, and so on.

 

[ChecMark]

Frozen Shoulder?

Rinfrance mentioned this as what I understood to be a consequence of taking Metformin. Although I have been on Metformin since 2004 I only recently (a month ago) got what my doctor called frozen shoulder. It is getting worse and worse and I'm losing mobility in my arm. I can't put it behind my back at all now. I wake up at night many times when I rollover and my shoulder hurts. Any solution?

 

[rinfrance]

Hi, that is classic eventuality of one of the seemingly contributers. It may be tolerated for a while, or a certain limit is built up and bingo, the inflammation gets worse. The shoulder affected was at some time injured, in my case the result when I was 18 and am now 65, my knee not so badly 5 years ago, finger joints gawd knows and so on.
It seems that then you start to get the clicky fingers. What exactly are your meds.
Talk to your doctor and stop IMMEDIATELY then the one with metformin in. After about 3 weeks your shoulder will be heaps better etc. however my shoulder has not got completely better yet now 4 weeks, and although my right hand and knee are good the left is still a bit sore and clicky.
Please let us know how you get on, there are other drugs or insulins, the bad news is if you do not stop it seems to get worse and be irreversible!!!!

 

[jwags]

I have heard that frozen shoulder and other overuse injuries are a result from diabetes and glycation on nerve endings, not necessarily metformin. Metformin does deplete B 12 from our system so some find they need to take a supplement.

 

[onaughmae]

I have heard that frozen shoulder and other overuse injuries are a result from diabetes and glycation on nerve endings, not necessarily metformin. Metformin does deplete B 12 from our system so some find they need to take a supplement.

Yes, it is a result of glycation on nerve endings and joints, directly related to diabetes.

**getting up on soapbox**
Please, remember people, we can only give advice as to what *we* have experienced...we can not tell someone to stop taking their medication. That is something that is between them and their health care provider. We can suggest questions to ask them, or offer opinions, but in my opinion, no one here should ever stop taking a medication without consulting their physician first.
**back to your regularly scheduled programming**

 

[rinfrance]

Hi, thats correct about the various problems associated to others complaints, but the problem according to Lilly's and Novo as never been associated with diabetes or the drug. IF, and thats a big IF so many others that I know, have the same problem, and IF the problem stops or goes away or reduces when stopping the drug, and IF the doctors refuse to accept its something to do with any of the drugs, where do you go.
At the end of the day IF stopping that drug stops the problem and nothing else does, then its a problem with the drug. Frankly if I can no longer go to the loo on my own, dress myself, drive, walk down stairs, sleep on my left side, pour a drink and have serious pain then just because its "metform reduces the etc, etc" then its a drug associated pain. Frankly, its unnacceptable and as I have discovered not just me, its no good doctors saying its associated with diabetes, yes, that is the reason for you giving me the drug which my body finds unacceptable!!
So, again if you are getting old joint injury problems that cannot be sorted them it is due to the metformin in the various drug. This intolerance may be built up over time, or immediate, the various complications may also be temporary or permanant it depends on the individual, however whatever is said, its the drug effect that causes the problem, not the result of the diabetes. If it were the diabetes, then irrespective of the drug it would not dissapear.
I shall try the Marmite recommendation, thats vit B12, and if you read the post, I did say speak to your doctor and as for soap box, well then I suggest that you explain other ways of giving this sort of information ... Erm, very much like you are at present perhaps.
Do tell, why are there always people that object to information being given, whether the information requires more to complete the picture is great, that makes the picture more complete, denigrating information because it may not apply to oneself is actually "soap boxing".

 

[breezeonby]

Hi, that is classic eventuality of one of the seemingly contributers. It may be tolerated for a while, or a certain limit is built up and bingo, the inflammation gets worse. The shoulder affected was at some time injured, in my case the result when I was 18 and am now 65, my knee not so badly 5 years ago, finger joints gawd knows and so on.
It seems that then you start to get the clicky fingers. What exactly are your meds.
Talk to your doctor and stop IMMEDIATELY then the one with metformin in. After about 3 weeks your shoulder will be heaps better etc. however my shoulder has not got completely better yet now 4 weeks, and although my right hand and knee are good the left is still a bit sore and clicky.
Please let us know how you get on, there are other drugs or insulins, the bad news is if you do not stop it seems to get worse and be irreversible!!!!

Could you please quote where you get your information from? I have checked "The Pill Book-14th Edition" and the only out of the ordinary side effect for metformin is lactic acidosis and "The PDR Pocket Guide To Prescription Drugs" states the same. Gastrointestional side effects are a common problem that some people have while taking metformin. If you had a bad reaction to metformin, then that is OK to tell, but we can't predict if that reaction will ever repeat itself in the same way in another person.

 

[Adjitater]

I researched the topic of diabetes joint problems and the Mayo Clinic has information on all the conditions that were talked about and the only related thing that causes some of them is nerve damage. I have what is known as diabetic hand and it is NOT from taking diabetes drugs or the build up of drugs in my systom.

 

[Shanny]

I think it's time you dialed it down, Mr. rinfrance. You and your clicky-fingered friends have not proven your case against metformin, which has been in use for the last 90 years without causing orthopedic side effects. Gastric issues yes - joint and muscle issues, NO.

Before I continue I expect you to answer the question I posed a few days ago, which is: Do you or have you ever taken a statin drug for controlling your cholesterol?

And for the record, Marmite is rich in B-complex vitamins, but B12 is added in the manufacturing process because it is not naturally found in the yeast. If you intend to supplement B12, you may as well stick with a B12 sublingual tablet.

and as for soap box, well then I suggest that you explain other ways of giving this sort of information ... Erm, very much like you are at present perhaps.
Do tell, why are there always people that object to information being given, whether the information requires more to complete the picture is great, that makes the picture more complete, denigrating information because it may not apply to oneself is actually "soap boxing".

 

[onaughmae]

Hi, thats correct about the various problems associated to others complaints, but the problem according to Lilly's and Novo as never been associated with diabetes or the drug. IF, and thats a big IF so many others that I know, have the same problem, and IF the problem stops or goes away or reduces when stopping the drug, and IF the doctors refuse to accept its something to do with any of the drugs, where do you go.
At the end of the day IF stopping that drug stops the problem and nothing else does, then its a problem with the drug. Frankly if I can no longer go to the loo on my own, dress myself, drive, walk down stairs, sleep on my left side, pour a drink and have serious pain then just because its "metform reduces the etc, etc" then its a drug associated pain. Frankly, its unnacceptable and as I have discovered not just me, its no good doctors saying its associated with diabetes, yes, that is the reason for you giving me the drug which my body finds unacceptable!!
So, again if you are getting old joint injury problems that cannot be sorted them it is due to the metformin in the various drug. This intolerance may be built up over time, or immediate, the various complications may also be temporary or permanant it depends on the individual, however whatever is said, its the drug effect that causes the problem, not the result of the diabetes. If it were the diabetes, then irrespective of the drug it would not dissapear.
I shall try the Marmite recommendation, thats vit B12, and if you read the post, I did say speak to your doctor and as for soap box, well then I suggest that you explain other ways of giving this sort of information ... Erm, very much like you are at present perhaps.
Do tell, why are there always people that object to information being given, whether the information requires more to complete the picture is great, that makes the picture more complete, denigrating information because it may not apply to oneself is actually "soap boxing".

You misunderstand my intention...I do not object to information being given at all. We have seen your message about the evils of metformin repeatedly...we get it...apparently this is something that happened to you and sharing it is appreciated. But, that being said, your experience with metformin is most assuredly extremely uncommon. Most people that suffer any side effect from it at all will have some gastric upset. Most people tolerate it very well and it has been a wonderful drug in the management of T2 diabetes.

Again....most people that suffer from foot pain, joint pain, frozen shoulder and trigger finger have developed this problem as a direct result of having diabetes, not from drug use. I understand that this is not your case...but 99% of the time it is simply related to diabetes itself.

It does not hurt to suggest that people question their doctor about something, asking questions and being informed is always a good thing. Suggesting that someone stop taking a drug RIGHT NOW...or IMMEDIATELY..lends a sense of urgency and almost panic to an issue. I am not denigrating your information...just explaining that your experience (however distressing it was to you) is not the norm. I would hate to see people stop taking a drug that is more beneficial than harmful before carefully weighing their options and talking to their healthcare provider about it.

I recently was having some very unusual reaction to an insulin I was taking. It is most certainly an uncommon reaction but it was very distressing to me and caused me quite a bit of problem. But that is just me, and I recognize that it was an unusual case. I would certainly not be telling people to stop using insulin..but thats just me.

 

[scardino58]

Hi- can you clarify the sticky finger. I have inflamed joint on small pinkie finger and it hurts and is red. can Metformin cause this ? I am not clear what you mean by holding your hand over your head clear this up.