[kenvj]

Hi - My name is Ken and I'm 77 years old, I live in the Central North Island of New Zealand and I've suffered from chronic fatigue for a long time, severe for the past 8 years. Two or three months ago my wife made some Anzac biscuits which were rich in Golden Syrup and I had a reaction to them, felt ill and very tired, never had anything quite like it before. A bit later on I had some cornflakes for breakfast which had been sweetened with Golden Syrup and had the same reaction to them and had to stop eating them. Later still I had Honey for lunch, spread it a bit thick and 2 hours later I became very ill, this lasted the rest of that day, all day the next day and until midday on the third day. I had a look at the make up of both Golden Syrup and Honey and found that the common factor was Glucose. I booked an appointment with my doctor but couldn't get to see him for a week as there was a long weekend in between. That evening my wife served me up a brand name sponge pudding - I was ill all the next day so I looked at the ingredients and sure enough there was Glucose Syrup there. I did a bit of research on the puter and it indicated that I had Glucose Intolerance which is otherwise known as Pre-Diabetes. I immediately went on a full diabetic diet. My doctor gave me a finger prick blood test which was 9 and then sent me for a Haemoglobin blood test, that was 5.8 which was .2 below the diabetes level. My doctor doesn't seem to know anything about Glucose Intolerance, said he had never heard of it then after a while he said I must mean Impaired Glucose Tolerance (obviously the same thing). He offered me a Glucose Tolerance blood test which I turned down at that point because of it involved drinking 75 grams of pure glucose. After the severity of the reaction I had from Golden Syrup and Honey that amount of glucose would make me extremely ill to say the least.
I purchased a blood glucose meter and checked my own blood sugar levels but since rigorously staying on a diabetic diet they are well under control, I'm not getting ill and my energy is improving.
I have two questions if some kind person would advise me. First should I pick up my courage and have the Glucose Tolerance test, and secondly would it help if I went to see a dietician.. I know I'm old but this days I might live for a long time yet giving plenty of time for it to move into full blown diabetes.
Thanks for your patience.
Ken

 

[onlymep]

I have two questions if some kind person would advise me. First should I pick up my courage and have the Glucose Tolerance test, and secondly would it help if I went to see a dietician.. I know I'm old but this days I might live for a long time yet giving plenty of time for it to move into full blown diabetes.
Thanks for your patience.
Ken

Hi Ken and welcome
In answer to your 2 questions... my response is 'yes'. Despite your age you need to know what it is you are dealing with and you deserve to live a long and happy life. The Glucose Intolerance Test will show how your body reacts to sugar and will help diagnose what you are dealing with. Seeing a dietitian would be a good idea to just fine tune your diet. Dietitians have access to lots of up-to-date information. Sometimes people agree with them and sometimes they don't. I would recommend that you see a dietitian who has experience in dealing with diabetics as they would have a better understanding concerning carb intake, etc.
It sounds like you're on the right track though with getting your BGLs down. It's great to hear that you are regularly testing your BGLs too. Are you doing a fasting BGL in the mornings? And are you testing 2 hours after eating to see what your BGL is? Also it's a good idea to test 1 hour after eating to see how much your sugar spikes after eating a food... if too high don't eat it as it's not that good for you. Try and stick to low GI carbs when eating them too. I know New Zealanders love their puddings and things like that.... it's a good idea to stay away from them. For breakfast try oats instead of cornflakes, etc. Looking forward to hearing your experiences.

 

[kenvj]

Thanks indeed for your advise. My BGLs have been very good but I think I've been almost starving myself. I've got a book from the NZ diabetes people which is good on showing what types and amounts of food to have. We've been basing our meals on that. I feel sure that the problem is Pre-diabetes because of the BGLs I've been having but then I have literally starved myself for a while, also my son has Diabetes 2.
Thanks again.

 

[Shanny]

Hello Ken. Glad to meet you.

You're the same age as my own husband, and let me tell you, I expect him to live a good long time yet! So you take care of yourself and be a good patient.

I think as tough as it might be, the oral glucose tolerance test (OGTT) would be a good one, and would give the docs some good information on how your body handles (or DOESN'T handle!) glucose. It would be conducted in a controlled environment, and could be stopped if an emergency were to develop. If you've been eating sweets like this your entire life and now suddenly you become ill, something new is going on & the docs need to identify it before they can treat it.

I think your decision to alter your diet is good . . . just don't starve yourself - build your meals around protein & fats, and eat to satiety. And remember that glucose doesn't only come from sugar/syrup/sweets. Everything starchy begins to convert to sugar before you even swallow it, so all the breads, rice, pasta, potatoes, etc., will all be converted quickly to glucose by your own body. There are other sugars which are prob'ly co-conspirators - so watch for fructose, dextrose, sucrose, etc., too . . . all the "ose" sisters.

 

[breezeonby]

Hello Ken and welcome to the forum. There is a lot of information to be read on here, read what interests you. I am glad you found the forum. I hope are able to visit the forum often and take care!

 

[kenvj]

Thankyou both for your replies. I guess I will have to gird my loins and have the test - not looking forward to it though. It only seems to be only the foods containing glucose which give me a hard time, I guess the body doesn't need to convert them. Thanks once again.

 

[jwags]

I think the OGTT is a good idea. Many times your HbA1c comes out low but you will still be spiking after meals. Altering your diet is a good idea. Also one thing to consider it is not only glucose that spikes diabetics. It is all sources of carbs. So anything made with flour, wheat, corn will spike you as much as sugar. Many of us have learned how to base our diets on protein and fats and lots of vegetables and a few fruits. If you have a bg meter test after most meals, especially meals that include carb like Cornflakes. Start reading the labels on the back and go for the lowest carb option. Many of us find eating foods like bacon and eggs works best for breakfast.

 

[kenvj]

Thanks jwags. I'm taking all this advice on-board.

 

[onlymep]

base your diet within your means too Ken
I know here if I was to eat bacon & eggs every morning it would cost me a bomb (but I wouldn't do that for other reasons besides cost... it would be a treat for me). Meat prices aren't cheap these days, nor are our eggs. From my recollection food in the US is a lot cheaper than here & NZ.
Incorporate the wholegrain foods if you can in smaller portions and just pump up your dishes with non starchy foods. Keep an eye on your BP and cholesterol levels too as they both contribute to BGL control.
You probably will find that your grocery bill is a bit more expensive as the healthy foods normally are more expensive than the refined unhealthy foods.

 

[kenvj]

Hi Onlymep - I do have a problem with breakfast. I have gluten intolerance and GlutenFree breakfast cereal is almost always treated with Golden Syrup and that really hits me - makes me feel ill. I love porridge but oats almost always have a small amount of gluten in them. I have been using plain cornflakes which have been sweetened with fruit juice. This morning I added some fruit to them but maybe I should vary my breakfast and have eggs and bacon occasionally.
My BGL's have been very good on the diet I'm having and the symptoms I've been getting are improving. Just one problem and that is worrying me a lot, on the diet my legs are becoming very weak and I can only walk a short distance. I'm hoping that will go away soon.

 

[Shanny]

Just one problem and that is worrying me a lot, on the diet my legs are becoming very weak and I can only walk a short distance. I'm hoping that will go away soon.

Be sure you are eating enough, Ken. You shouldn't be getting weak from eating protein & fats. These won't mess up your blood sugar, but they will provide energy & the building blocks for your body to make the fuel it needs. Please stop starving yourself! You can eat as much protein/fats as you want.

 

[kenvj]

Thanks indeed Shanny, you may have hit it right on the button. I have been very light on meat because Diabetes New Zealand recommend only enough meat to cover the palm of your hand and I've got small hands anyway. Can you please be more specific about fats - are you talking of things like margarine and oil or do you mean meat fats. DaibetesNZ are really down on fats of any kind and even tell you to strip off any fat on meat and recommend chicken with the fats and skin removed.
I would appreciate any help with diet.
Ken

 

[Shanny]

The issue of fats is pretty controversial, because at least in the States, there's been a major campaign for years AGAINST eating fats, and yet more and more studies are showing that dietary fat has little or nothing to do with our lipids/cholesterol, and therefore is not a risk factor for heart disease. Our bodies themselves manufacture 85% of the cholesterol needed by the body.

The dangerous diet is fats plus carbohydrates. This is the one that promotes weight gain/obesity.

Fats plus protein is a very healthy diet. In my opinion, all fats are fair game, but some are better than others. I use dairy butter, heavy cream & full fat sour cream; I also use full fat mayonnaise & olive oil. Recently I've increased my usage of coconut oil, which is a medium-chain-triglyceride, and a VERY HEALTHY fat compared to others. Especially for people with metabolic issues like diabetes, fat is absolutely not the enemy!

Beware of trans fats/hydrogenated fats, like in manufactured foods such as margarine, but natural fats - even saturated fats - getting a bum rap. Don't avoid fats, and for sure don't start eating reduced fat products, because the process of removing the fats includes replacing it with carbs & chemical agents - fake food!

 

[kenvj]

Wow, this is opening a real debate in my head, what to do and what to eat. Is virgin olive oil one of the don't have variety like vegetable oils. I would have to make some major changes to my diet but I don't mind doing that if its going to help.
I'm quite happy to go back to full dairy fat milk and real butter instead of margarine. Can you point me towards a website that would give a breakdown of this type of diet - I see something called the Atkins diet on the net - is this the kind of thing we need to do, would the Atkins diet book help? I appreciate your help and any more info you can give me Shanny. Thanks again
Ken

 

[wdmama]

The way I look at this, and I'm just popping in here and haven't read through everything... but the way I view fats and protein is this:

You want to eat as close to the "source" as possible. Eating "manufactured" foods like margarine can NOT be better for you than something as simple as real butter. They add fillers and sugar to foods to make them low fat, and that can't be healthier than the more natural version of the full fat food.

So, we eat steak with the fat (grassfed if possible), and ground beef/chuck/etc regardless of fat content, and chicken with the skin, and when I make broth from chicken or beef bones I don't skim off the fat. Our bodies do need fat, and I feel the best way to get that is from natural sources...not sources that have been overly processed or manufactured. We eat salad with full fat salad dressing and steamed veggies with butter because your body needs fat in order to break down the nutrients in some foods.

We use butter, olive oil, lard (instead of hydrogenated shortening), bacon grease, and some times canola oil and coconut oil. BUT, we don't overdo it... we have biscuits made with lard maybe once a month...I don't fry our meat, most of it is grilled or baked. I steam our vegetables or we eat them raw...but we do have fat with the veggies. I substitue applesauce for oil when I bake, etc. So while we do use full fat items, we don't overindulge just because we can.

We stick to the outside of the grocery store and consume very little processed food. I personally do not buy any of the low-carb specialty foods, b/c they are too processed for me. But I would substitute almond flour or something natural and more low carb like that in a homemade recipe.

 

[Shanny]

I haven't read Atkins but I've done South Beach and it's a little goofy in my opinion . . . too much product placement, for one thing. But what Stephanie (wdmama) has described is ideal. Go natural! I cook from scratch the same as she does, although I fry more than she, and I bread a lot of the things I fry . . . chicken fried steak, pork chops, fish, etc.There's a low-carb breading floating around here that some of us have taken a likin' to, called Brandi's Breading - it consists of almond flour, vital wheat gluten & grated parmesan cheese. In fact, our dinner tonight was codfish filets with this breading. If you like breaded foods, this is at least as tasty as anything breaded with flour and/or bread/cracker crumbs, and it's nearly carb free. When I fix chicken or hot wings, I fry 'em with the skin on until the skin is deliciously crisp. Can't beat it!

So yeah, go with protein, full fat, natural foods, and don't go overboard. Avoid the grains/pasta/potatoes/rice/etc. But just don't go hungry! Eat all you want!

 

[onlymep]

hi Ken
My view on fats is similar to others... although I agree with the small amount of meat in diet simply because it's got saturated fat which is not good in large portions. Basically you are safer with vegetable fats than animal fats if you look at it that way. Apparently some research on fats with diabetes claims that it doesn't affect your LDL cholesterol... I'm not entirely sure that it true as I have already proven this wrong by increasing my meat intake (and lean meat mind you) because of low iron level and guess what increased... not only my iron (which got to a lovely number), but my LDL too. So I prefer to play it safe and only eat smaller portions of lean meats and proteins like that. In my view it's everything in moderation. Talk to your dietitian about what is a good meal as they have up-to-date information.

 

[anuradha.m]

Hi - My name is Ken and I'm 77 years old, I live in the Central North Island of New Zealand and I've suffered from chronic fatigue for a long time, severe for the past 8 years. Two or three months ago my wife made some Anzac biscuits which were rich in Golden Syrup and I had a reaction to them, felt ill and very tired, never had anything quite like it before. A bit later on I had some cornflakes for breakfast which had been sweetened with Golden Syrup and had the same reaction to them and had to stop eating them. Later still I had Honey for lunch, spread it a bit thick and 2 hours later I became very ill, this lasted the rest of that day, all day the next day and until midday on the third day. I had a look at the make up of both Golden Syrup and Honey and found that the common factor was Glucose. I booked an appointment with my doctor but couldn't get to see him for a week as there was a long weekend in between. That evening my wife served me up a brand name sponge pudding - I was ill all the next day so I looked at the ingredients and sure enough there was Glucose Syrup there. I did a bit of research on the puter and it indicated that I had Glucose Intolerance which is otherwise known as Pre-Diabetes. I immediately went on a full diabetic diet. My doctor gave me a finger prick blood test which was 9 and then sent me for a Haemoglobin blood test, that was 5.8 which was .2 below the diabetes level. My doctor doesn't seem to know anything about Glucose Intolerance, said he had never heard of it then after a while he said I must mean Impaired Glucose Tolerance (obviously the same thing). He offered me a Glucose Tolerance blood test which I turned down at that point because of it involved drinking 75 grams of pure glucose. After the severity of the reaction I had from Golden Syrup and Honey that amount of glucose would make me extremely ill to say the least.
I purchased a blood glucose meter and checked my own blood sugar levels but since rigorously staying on a diabetic diet they are well under control, I'm not getting ill and my energy is improving.
I have two questions if some kind person would advise me. First should I pick up my courage and have the Glucose Tolerance test, and secondly would it help if I went to see a dietician.. I know I'm old but this days I might live for a long time yet giving plenty of time for it to move into full blown diabetes.
Thanks for your patience.
Ken

Hi Ken, Welcome to the world of diabetics. You need a good diatician, and will power to stay away from alll things with high calories and Honey too. Artificiall sweeteners can be used to some extent but dont believe what they write on the labels. You are doing well with your BGs which means you are following proper diabetis diet. But yu would do well to go for that Glucose tolerance test and consult in a Trustworthy doctor who doesnt pump you with all possible medications available from market. You may want to do some research on those online too. Adult onset diabetis can be controlled if you dont compromise your immune system..Lots of Good Luck! Hopng to see you when you are 100yrs.

 

[kenvj]

Thank you all for your advice - I will experiment and see how I go. I must admit that I'm a bit gobsmacked about eating so much fat. We'll see what happens.
Thanks again
Ken

 

[beefy]

Thank you all for your advice - I will experiment and see how I go. I must admit that I'm a bit gobsmacked about eating so much fat. We'll see what happens.
Thanks again
Ken

Well, you don't have to eat LOTS of fat... We're just saying it's not as bad as many dieticians would have you believe. But most dieticians are still preaching the old mantra of 8-10 servings of whole grains per day while eating low-fat... which is NOT good diet for diabetics.

I rarely go a meal without a meat serving, and I do NOT have small servings as they suggest. (I'm a 6'3" 255 pound man and they tried to tell me a serving of meat is the size of a deck of cards... :wacko: I don't think so ... )

I usually have raw veggies with my meals, but often I'll sautee them in Olive Oil. Olive oil is very heart-healthy. If I steam veggies I'll usually put a bit of butter on them.

You can also get healthy fats from Nuts.

When I sit down and do the math I normally get about 20 - 30% of my daily calories from fat. The rest is protein and carbs, but my carbs are mostly veggies and lower-GI fruits.