[ShottleBop]

I just received a link to this column by Hope Warshaw: "Type 2 Diabetes: From Old Dogmas to New Realities - Part 2".

Excerpt:

Old Dogma: People with type 2 diabetes should follow a low carbohydrate diet.

New Reality: Nutrition recommendations for people with type 2 diabetes from the American Diabetes Association and other health authorities echo the recently unveiled U.S. 2010 Dietary Guidelines (1/31/11) for carbohydrate: about 45 to 65 percent of calories. (Americans currently eat about 45 to 50 percent of calories as carbohydrate--not a "high carb" intake.)

Countless research studies do not show long term (greater than six months to a year) benefit of low carb diets on blood glucose, weight control, or blood fats. People with type 2 diabetes, like the general public, should lighten up on added sugars and sweets (yes, they're carbohydrate). They should eat sufficient amounts of fruits, vegetables, whole grains, and low fat dairy foods--all healthy sources of carbohydrate.

Bottom line: The most important new reality for prediabetes and type 2 diabetes is: Take action as early as possible after diagnosis. Don't delay, don't deny. Get and keep your blood glucose, blood pressure, and blood cholesterol into recommended target zones.

I have written to Steve Freed, who coordinates Dr. Bernstein's monthly teleseminars, asking that Dr. Bernstein respond to Hope's assertions on next month's call.

 

[d33na]

wow that's this week...*head shaking* it's like saying use this petrol...its the wrong petrol BUT if it doesn't work BUY this additive and maybe after years of tweaking you'll be able to drive the car...I'm gob smacked

 

[Shanny]

Is she for real?! Good grief! I hope she doesn't have much of a following - this is ridiculous.

 

[fgummett]

Here is a clip of Hope Warshaw and Dr Bernstein on dLife some years back...

aaargh!

 

[Guest]

I don't think the view point is wrong... just different. We're not all the same afterall. I personally would do more what Hope says with my diet and I agree with healthy carb options and not the refined stuff. People have different opinions on how the human race got here and what they ate.... I don't agree with some of the scientific theories about that one either. What Hope says would be right for some and maybe not for others, same goes for Dr Bernstein and what he reckons.... it's up to the individual to discover what's right for their bodies.

 

[d33na]

Oh I think it is very wrong...to blatantly say NOT to low carb from a doctor dealing with diabetics...I wonder how many of us would be alive? That attitude is
dangerous if not deadly to most diabetics...

The more we don't challenge these antiquated views the more we lose control of our own health and ultimately our survival...

I'd like to see the her "countless research studies"...seems to me to be the old "university tests show..."

We have real proof...we can see our blood glucose readings after we eat...I'm not saying we are all alike but we ALL need to lower our carb intake in comparison to the average persons diet...to report otherwise is tantamount to murder..

 

[Shanny]

The single salient fact which can't be ignored is that ingestion of carbs raises blood glucose levels. That is THE primary characteristic of this disorder. Yes there are other lesser factors to keep balanced, but our metabolism is impaired in processing carbohydrates. The biggest hurdle people must accept is that their beloved carbs make them sick, even unto death. Why in heck would people promote eating more carbs when it just makes more work or more meds to get our levels back down again, so we won't lose our sight or our feet?

 

[Shalynne]

If a fellow diabetic's found a plan that works for them, I've got their back.

If they choose not to follow a plan at all, and/or they're content with levels that horrify me, I leave 'em the heck alone -- we can still talk movies or books or whatever, instead. (PLEASE NOTE: Forum regulars don't fall into this category.)

However, if a diabetic asks for advice, I'll give what I can. If someone's spiking and they don't like it, I'll point out the probable food culprits. If they're totally new and floundering, I'll encourage 'em to start with low-carb ... and, more important, to Eat To Their Meter.

In many areas, such as pumping or childhood diabetes, all I can offer is moral support. (Most of the time, I have sense enough to know that.)

BUT ... when professionals hold back vital information, display an inappropriate lack of interest and/or actively discourage us from finding our healthiest path ... that's when I get more than a tad ornery.

 

[HardBackStrider]

If a fellow diabetic's found a plan that works for them, I've got their back.

If they choose not to follow a plan at all, and/or they're content with levels that horrify me, I leave 'em the heck alone -- we can still talk movies or books or whatever, instead. (PLEASE NOTE: Forum regulars don't fall into this category.)

However, if a diabetic asks for advice, I'll give what I can. If someone's spiking and they don't like it, I'll point out the probable food culprits. If they're totally new and floundering, I'll encourage 'em to start with low-carb ... and, more important, to Eat To Their Meter.

In many areas, such as pumping or childhood diabetes, all I can offer is moral support. (Most of the time, I have sense enough to know that.)

BUT ... when professionals hold back vital information, display an inappropriate lack of interest and/or actively discourage us from finding our healthiest path ... that's when I get more than a tad ornery.

Not sure I know enough to comment but all I know is its a fight to reduce my beloved carbs. So one side of me welcomes the idea of good carbs hmmm but reality tells me not a good idea.

 

[fgummett]

Not sure I know enough to comment but all I know is its a fight to reduce my beloved carbs. So one side of me welcomes the idea of good carbs hmmm but reality tells me not a good idea.

For me it was case of the less I ate them the less I craved them and it has just continued to get less and less; such that now I have no interest in them anymore... I still enjoy green leafy veg and a few berries, nuts and the like but not so much for any carb content: more to do with them being real whole foods.

Not everyone endorses the following approach -- although Dr Bernstein does and Dr Atkins did -- but what worked best for me when I first started low-carb was to try and cut them all out... anything that listed more than 1g carbs per serving was out; for at least the first few weeks. The you can gradually reintroduce them, testing your BG as you go to see what you can tolerate. I am convinced that at least for me this worked to break any addiction to carbs and also helped my body remember how to use fat as an energy source.

Some complain of feeling weak and out of sorts during this "induction phase" -- commonly referred to as "induction flu". This did not happen to me, perhaps because I dd not allow myself to feel deprived or go hungry... I just ate "safe foods" until I was satisfied.

Some even hold this up as a rationale not to even try the low-carb approach... I wonder what these same folks would say about trying the grapefruit or cabbage soup diet for example? I can't imagine feeling so great on either of those diets!

 

[Shalynne]

Not sure I know enough to comment but all I know is its a fight to reduce my beloved carbs. So one side of me welcomes the idea of good carbs hmmm but reality tells me not a good idea.

Confession Time ...

If I'd been diagnosed in a doctor's office, or by phone or email, life would be much different. What I got instead, was a sudden hospital/ER/ICU stay.

Were it not for that event (hey, can I take a hint, or what?) and finding this Forum, I'd still be carbing it up whilst blaming a host of symptoms on everything but diabetes. Said slacking would continue under the approving eye of the American Diabetes Association.

We must perform so much due diligence just to maneuver in life. I don't see how anybody can approach perfection in all areas. Something(s) must slide past. I know me ... diabetes would have been one of those things.

But now I know where that can lead, and wish that on nobody. More important, I know what it's like to feel better. Both are powerful motivators. Well worth sharing.

 

[rdb]

I've been pre-diabetic since 2005 and read Dr. Bernstein's Diabetes solution to see if I could stave off a type 11 diagnosis. I haven't followed it that closely but I did reduce my net carbs below 100 most days (holidays excluded). my fasting glucose is 115 now when 6 years ago it was 110. Interesting to Note that Dr. Bernstein has been a Type 1 diabetic since 1946 when he was 16. That makes him 81 and living with diabetes for 55 years. I'll bet there aren't many with that diabetic history.

 

[Guest]

I should mention that I fully support portion control of carbs.... but I'm not anti-carbs as for me I know I function much better eating them. I noticed Hope mentioned moderate carb intake... everyone would no doubt have their own interpretation of that. But carb control is important, and when eating carbs I agree with Hope that you should be choosing the healthier options. At the end of the day it is still up to the individual to discover for themselves... just like absolutely everything else in life. Eg. people hear both of these people give their view and they make up their own minds and hopefully test their theories. I certainly wouldn't push my way of eating on someone else as I know they are probably totally different than me. Thank goodness we're not all alike... life would be rather boring wouldn't it.

 

[Shanny]

At the end of the day it is still up to the individual to discover for themselves... just like absolutely everything else in life.

Absolutely true, the essence of eating to our meters, yes?

Unless Hope Warshaw is herself diabetic and can testify with those oh-so-expressive eyes of hers that eating that ear of corn-on-the-cob does not negatively affect her blood sugar levels, then she has no business making money selling books that teach people to eat foods that do indeed raise their blood sugar. As I said before - it's ridiculous. And it's outrageous. And it's dangerous practice for diabetics. You know yourself, Mep, that it's hard enough keeping your BGL in a safe range - you yourself go skyrocketing off to 13.5 or some unhealthy level without even knowing why. You've been on insulin for a year - has it helped in any way at all? Have you tried both methods (low carb vs. low GI) and determined that eating carbs suggested by the GI index keeps your levels more stable than lowering carbs?

 

[Guest]

yeah I think I mentioned already that I have done that Shanny... I'm not in question here, please don't get that personal with me thanks. I'm simply stating that everyone has a right to an opinion and to make choices. You've obviously discovered for yourself what is working for you and that's what matters. I've had this condition for a while and I have other things going on so I think it is fair to say that insulin has been the best for me to date as far as control goes. I do have my ups and downs like everyone.

 

[Eddie]

I don't think the view point is wrong... just different. We're not all the same afterall. I personally would do more what Hope says with my diet and I agree with healthy carb options and not the refined stuff. People have different opinions on how the human race got here and what they ate.... I don't agree with some of the scientific theories about that one either. What Hope says would be right for some and maybe not for others, same goes for Dr Bernstein and what he reckons.... it's up to the individual to discover what's right for their bodies.

I agree, I've used the dash diet plan since I was diagnosed in 2004 and it works for me, it is the complete opposite of low carb, but I would never advocate that this is the only plan someone should follow, as you said, each person has to find what right for them.

 

[foxl]

Well, another carb-intolerant voice, here!

I do seriously see the throwdown, between Hope W and, say, 20 Type 2 Diabetics. Let them eat as Hope recommends for a month (including Hope herself), and test test test -- like 10 -12 times per day, and maybe throw in an A1c for good measure! Surely a meter maker would be willing to sponsor this!?!? Make it commercial, JUST LIKE THE DRUG COS DO.

 

[fgummett]

... I've used the dash diet plan since I was diagnosed in 2004 and it works for me, it is the complete opposite of low carb ...

How is it the complete opposite of low-carb? Not meant as an attack but rather as a serious question.

I've yet to come across a person with Diabetes who does not to some extent have to restrict carbohydrates in order to manage BGs. Is anybody here even close to the 300g recommended daily allowance?

My own approach is to favour real whole foods with a natural balance of nutrients as provided by nature, and to which I am convinced my body is best adapted. In doing so I naturally avoid the refined and concentrated [simple] carbs found in so much of the current Western diet. Now recognising my Diabetes and by listening to my BG meter I have also had to cut out most real whole sources of starches and other carbs such as grains, root vegetables and many fruits BUT my diet (which just means "what I eat" not a short term intervention) is still, in my view, balanced, healthy and moderate despite the fact that I (like many here) end up eating far fewer carbohydrates than many of the general population seem to do.

I hear from Hope Warshaw that she is encouraging people with Diabetes to eat plenty of carbohydrates because she says we "deserve to eat like normal people" and should not deprive ourselves. This runs counter to my thinking... if I were gluten intolerant would she say I should still enjoy wheat freely so as to "fit in" -- meanwhile having to take medication rather than avoiding those foods which my body is rebelling against? Well in my case I am carbohydrate intolerant... I am quite happy with the way I eat tasty and filing meals; without the least feeling of deprivation or hardship. And I have been eating this way for nearly three (3) years now with no hint of getting bored, or having trouble sustaining this, or of any nutritional deficiency... why would there be, what I eat is very close to what my Grand Parents and Parent ate not many decades ago; before we were all admonished to "cut the fat" and eat carbs instead.

---

We each do what works best for us... I don't see anyone arguing that here. Hope Warshaw is saying that we should eat carbs, we must eat carbs, we NEED to eat carbs even if that means increasing your medication... THAT is the issue! She is not saying eat to your meter and figure out what works best for you... and by the way, as a person with D, chances are high that will include cutting back on carbs -- by how much is an individual thing.

 

[d33na]

I think I'm confused here...isn't diabetes about not being able to tolerate carbs?

 

[Guest]

The DASH diet from my understanding is to treat hypertension. That's the other consideration... we are all different and we eat certain foods for various reasons too... not just for treating diabetes but for general wellbeing. I don't think anyone has actually said that they can eat as much carbs as they want here? Every person is willing to look after their own health from what I've read and they eat what they are able to tolerate. That's the key... what do you tolerate? If you don't tolerate too many carbs or certain types of carbs then you simply don't eat them, your decision alone and no one elses. Diabetes does mean we have impairment to process glucose... but we all have difference levels. There is no right and wrong answer... sorry if I'm sounding blunt, but I think that everyone has a right of reply to share what they do, and what they think or know works for them and everyone would have a slightly different diet or view than others for sure. As I said before thank goodness we're all different and most importantly we're not here to judge each other either. I think you are all doing a great job managing with this frustrating disease as it's not always a smooth ride. :rockon: