The Diabetes Forum Support Community For Diabetics Online banner

21 - 40 of 92 Posts

·
Registered
Joined
·
1,866 Posts
I was having problems with my morning/fasting BS creeping up from the low 100's to 110-120....I had changed nothing over the 2-3 months I saw this trend. So I experimented with my nightly injection of Lantus, went from 25u to 30u every night. Within 4-5 days I saw a drop back down into the low 100's...

Worked for me....but since my Lantus is slow acting is took a few days to show consistent results....

Good Luck
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
294 Posts
Still not up to speed on the mechanics of everything, so I'm sorry I can't comment there, but I am curious - how many days did you try at the 22 units?

Also, in another thread I just learned that maybe NPH peaks? Whereas Lantus has a steadier release? Although this doesn't do anything to help explain what's going on with you...sorry to digress!
 
  • Like
Reactions: Papa Diva

·
Registered
Joined
·
799 Posts
Still not up to speed on the mechanics of everything, so I'm sorry I can't comment there, but I am curious - how many days did you try at the 22 units?

Also, in another thread I just learned that maybe NPH peaks? Whereas Lantus has a steadier release? Although this doesn't do anything to help explain what's going on with you...sorry to digress!
I've been at 22 units for 3 to 4 weeks. Prior to that I was at 20 units for even longer and during that time my DP was was about 10 points lower... hence my question.

I think I'll go up to 25 units for a short time and should that not provide the results I would like, I'll come back down to 20 units.

Strange disease!!! :surprise:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
OK... looking for someones prior experience with the use of BASAL insulin.

My morning DP numbers did range 110 to 115 on 20 units of Novolin NPH at 10:30 p.m. I bumped the units up to 22 units with the hope that it would cause my DP to drop below 110... instead it when up to a 120 to 125 range!

Question... does the liver react to addition insulin in the blood stream causing a release of glucose in an attempt to balance the insulin? I believe this might be true knowing the pancreas and liver attempt to work together... just not very well in our systems!

I'm debating adding an additional 2 units up to 24 units or going back down to 20 units. According to the 'Think Like a Pancreas' calculator, I should be injecting 25 units.

All comments, positive or negative, are most welcome! :devil:
Yes, if you get too low, your liver may dump glucose. Just like the DP does.

Are you taking anything to help with insulin resistance and/liver dumping? Metformin and/or Berberine could help. I take both.

I have struggled with major DP for many years. We're talking about a morning number in the 180s. Nothing seemed to help. I could wake and it would be 130, and then get to 180+ without eating. Then it would never come down.

Then I tried eating some carbs in the morning, and that helped me bring it down, but I was still getting a spike. But at least it came down. Then I added Prandin in the morning and that helped a lot. But over time the DP got stronger, or my insulin output got weaker.

I wanted to give my pancreas a break, so, eventually I swutched to Humalog in the morning to bring my high FBG down and combat the DP. I have gotten up to 24 units in the morning. I do not use insulin during the day.

If I wake up an hour earlier, my FBG was closer to normal, so I know my issue is DP. I was waking up with numbers in the 140s-160s, but it would still keep going up. the Humalog took that down and stopped the additional rise. About 2 months ago I added Berberine and it lowered my initial FBG a lot. I still use the Humalog, though. The Berberine not only helped my liver dumps, it has reduce my insulin resistance. I am now more stable during the day.

I have considered changing to Lantus (Kaiser only gives Lantus, not levimar) to try to stop even the short lived morning high, but I am trying to see if the Berberine / Humalog combo sustains. I also just spent a lot of time coming up with a working formula. I really don't want to try to figure out how much Lantus I need and do all that adjusting again.

So things do seem to be getting better - This morning my FBG was in the 90s, and before lunch it was in the 80s, and was 70 before dinner, so that is the desired result. But my FBG is still inconsistent.

BTW, I eat super low carb. 9 grams (net carbs) in the morning, and probably only around 5-10 grams total (if that) the rest of the day from associated veggies and sauces. So my issue is all liver dumps, not my carb intake.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
146 Posts
Mine just miraculously regulated itself over the past year with LCHF. I started out with FG at 180 last year. It gradually went down. Over the past several months it is always under 100. Today it was 92.
If I pig out before going to sleep even if the meal is low carb, my fasting number will go up. Generally I try to not eat after 7 and my fasting number matches the number I went to sleep with.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
Mine just miraculously regulated itself over the past year with LCHF. I started out with FG at 180 last year. It gradually went down. Over the past several months it is always under 100. Today it was 92.
If I pig out before going to sleep even if the meal is low carb, my fasting number will go up. Generally I try to not eat after 7 and my fasting number matches the number I went to sleep with.
I've been super low-carb for 15 years with around only 20 per day now. In the beginning it was none, and I was in ketosis for years. Then one day I started to get morning highs with no food or carbs. After a lot of trials, I determined I need some carbs in the morning to stimulate natural insulin release. After a few years, I needed some help and used Prandin along with some carbs to help stimulate the release. Then after a few years of that, it was coming up again, so I tried Humalog in the morning to give my pancreas a break. That is working, and now my insulin response thougout the day is much better. I guess the morning help is working.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
I injected 25 units of NPH last night and had a 102 reading this morning... going in the right direction... but one night is not enough to tell!
What time did you inject, and what time in the morning did you test? NPH has a peaking action, so I'm curious on the timeline. Did you test in between injection and the morning at night? I have thought of trying NPH especially for that peak actually to combat my DP peak, but was concerned it would peak at the wrong time and I would go too low.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
799 Posts
What time did you inject, and what time in the morning did you test? NPH has a peaking action, so I'm curious on the timeline. Did you test in between injection and the morning at night? I have thought of trying NPH especially for that peak actually to combat my DP peak, but was concerned it would peak at the wrong time and I would go too low.
I test about 6:30 a.m. and inject about 10:30 p.m. My numbers with 25 units has run between 102 and 125. I have not checked during the night but have had no symptoms of a hypo.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
799 Posts
I'm still working on a theory that works consistently. My FBG is still higher than I want it (113-132), but increases in insulin just seems to limit the range rather than actually lower the bottom number. Why was it lower overall (but greater highs and lows) two weeks ago? Not sure. Could be less exercise since I haven't been to the YMCA in a couple of weeks. BUT, I am trying to get in similar exercise at home when I can't go anywhere.
 
  • Like
Reactions: skypeace

·
Registered
Joined
·
128 Posts
I test about 6:30 a.m. and inject about 10:30 p.m. My numbers with 25 units has run between 102 and 125. I have not checked during the night but have had no symptoms of a hypo.
So that's 8 hours between the injection and your FBG measurement. What time do you eat at night, and what do you eat in terms of carbs, protein, and fat?

Do you measure again after your FBG reading?
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
799 Posts
So that's 8 hours between the injection and your FBG measurement. What time do you eat at night, and what do you eat in terms of carbs, protein, and fat?

Do you measure again after your FBG reading?
I eat at 6:00 p.m. generally and limit myself to 10 carbs or less per meal. I don't measure again until lunch and generally I'm below 100 then and also at dinner time.

I know its my wonderful liver that is dumping glucose in the morning which Metformin is supposed to handle. I guess the liver has been doing the same thing for so many years it doesn't know when to stop!

I've kept injecting 25 units at night and my FBG ranges from 103 to 120 generally averaging maybe 113... not bad but not what I would like to see in the morning which is below 100! :devil:
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
799 Posts
DCE suggested yesterday to try eating a single cracker or two grapes in the early morning to see if that will satisfy the liver. I typically wake up between 2 and 3, so not something I would have to specially set an alarm for. I'm going to try that for a couple of early mornings to see if that makes any difference in the DP.

Also, I just found out that I have above normal iron. Perhaps that is influencing my blood sugar. Don't know how that works, but am investigating.
 
  • Like
Reactions: skypeace

·
Registered
Joined
·
788 Posts
My endo said, when I was first starting out on Lantus, to increase the Lantus by 2 units every 3 days, until the morning reading was between 5 and 6. That was before I began using Novorapid. But she prescribed that only for when I am having significant carbs with meals.

I tried to get those numbers down only with Lantus and it was just fruitless. In the end I was on 98 units a day and that just seemed excessive, so I decided to bite the bullet and start using the Novorapid as prescribed. It seems to work for me, and I've been able to reduce my Lantus now to 70 units a day and still reducing.

Seems to me its all a matter of balance. I just havent quite found mine yet, because I still crave carbs after being low carb for a few weeks and then I "bust".
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
788 Posts
And just as a matter of interest, after waking to a 6.2 today, it seems I had a belated DP after my nap, when I managed an 8.4, without having eaten anything. Rapidcalc told me I needed 17u/s of Novorapid so lets see how we go.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
105 Posts
I go to bed with an 80 reading and wake up to a 95-100. I've been on lchf pretty strictly for about 2 yrs. I'd thought about metformin but doubt my pcp would prescribe it with those numbers. I'd love to have fasting in the 80's. It happens seldom.
 

·
Registered
Joined
·
799 Posts
126 - It was about 151 when I went to bed last night (glass of milk), so I was pleasantly surprised that it was LOWER when I woke up since this hasn't been the case since I dropped metformin. Especially interesting is that this is occuring AFTER I reduced my Novolog use (instead of set amounts, I now use ratio against carbs to be consumed).

[LCHF folks...avert your eyes!!] OK, after today, I am past all the birthday party cake, meals and treats. For those of you who eat birthday cake, I could use 10u of Novolog to cover cake and ice cream, but 10u do not cover cake alone. More proof that FAT helps to slow and lower the spike. Anyway, no more birthdays until December, so no more cake.

soapluvr, I would tend to agree with you that your doc probably wouldn't give you metformin since you don't go above 100. But, maybe a 250 mg dosage (you can split the regular metformin) might be acceptable. The current belief among doctors is that metformin provides a protective benefit over and above reducing sugar dump from liver. Unlike all the other meds, metformin doesn't typically give lows, which is defined by the endo as anything below 80 in my case.
 
  • Like
Reactions: skypeace

·
Registered
Joined
·
74 Posts
I've been having issues with DP. I've been T1 since I was six, and over the years kind of slacked. But I know I now need to have better control over my sugars and I'm really trying. It has actually been going pretty good other than in the mornings. I wake with great sugar readings but don't normally eat for a couple hours. By the time I test for breakfast my sugar has gone up. And it seems to take more insulin to bring it down if the reading is higher than I like when I first wake.
This morning I woke at 6am with 111(that is really good for me) but by 8, my sugar was 178. I didn't eat anything in that time, and I was hesitant to take any insulin. It seems to raise around 60-75 points if I take no insulin when I wake. And if I do take some insulin (if it's over 140) it only lowers it by 5-15 points. But the same amount of insulin would drop my sugar later in the day.
It just is confusing and frustrating, I'm not really sure what to do or where to start.
 

·
Premium Member
Joined
·
2,665 Posts
I wake with great sugar readings but don't normally eat for a couple hours. By the time I test for breakfast my sugar has gone up. And it seems to take more insulin to bring it down if the reading is higher than I like when I first wake.
I experience the same thing. At the moment I chase my DP every morning with corrections. I've gotten pretty good at bringing a high fasting back down to 100-120 and keeping it there, though it takes over twice the amount of insulin than I take when correcting in the evening.

When I get a CGM, I'm going to use it to figure out if I can increase my nightly basal to help with this. I'd prefer to wake up under 140. If it keeps up, or it's clear that the spike is starting late in the morning I plan on getting a pump, so that I can set a higher basal rate from 4am - 11am.

This morning I woke at 6am with 111(that is really good for me) but by 8, my sugar was 178. I didn't eat anything in that time, and I was hesitant to take any insulin.
Obviously I'm neither a T1 or a doctor but I'm curious why you were hesitant to correct the 178? Or is the issue that when you wake up with great BG, it's not clear how much insulin to take to prevent the spike?
 
21 - 40 of 92 Posts
Top