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I see this expression mentioned in another thread; can someone elaborate. I always take my readings in the morning before breakfast, which means that I have had no food intake for at least eight hours. I thought that this was a good thing; am I missing something here?

Thanks, JR
 

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OK JR, Dawn Phenomenon is about rising Blood Glucose for no reason as this happens in the morning. What actually happens is when you wake from your wonderful sleep, What do you do? You S-T-R-E-A-C-H ! ! ! that wakes up the liver that has glucodin as that goes to your body that needs energy. So we may decide to skip breakfast witch is the most important meal of your day. For Type 1's we can do the correction and be OK (Well at least I do) To many who find this so annoying so I guess mine is not so bad. :D
 

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Hello JR. When you go for a long period of time without eating carbs your glucose supply drops and your liver produces a supply of glucose to compensate. The amount of glucose produced is usually more than you need since you are not active at night so your blood sugar level rises. That is why so many diabetics have high blood sugar in the morning before breakfast. Since it usually happens in the morning it is called Dawn Phenomenon, or DP. It can also happen at other times if you skip meals and are not eating for many hours. Some diabetics eat a high protein snack at bed time. The protein digests slowly and can help keep the liver from doing its thing. Like Peter said, a Type 1 diabetic can compensate for this. I used to test at 3 AM and then take a small dose of fast acting insulin so I would wake up at a good level.

I don't think you have mentioned your diagnosis. Are you Type 1, Type 2, prediabetic? How you handle DP can vary, depending on your Type of diabetes.

Richard
 

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Discussion Starter · #4 ·
Thanks for the info. I am Type 2, and take Metformin 1000mg twice a day. I have made it a practice to test each morning before breakfast in order to mimic the test results that would come from a "fasting" lab test. This is the first I have heard of DP, but it does make sense. I usually snack in the evening about an hour or two before bed, but I should probably be more careful with my snack choices. My favorite snack is potato chips and that is probably a poor choice.

JR
 

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I do not eat any food like potato chips after 8 PM. At bed time I used to eat some peanut butter and a couple of saltines. That works well for many people. Cheese is also a good choice. There is a product called the Extend Bar that can be eaten at bed time. It has a high protein content and is intended to handle the DP problem. If you Google that you can read about it.
 

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OK JR, Dawn Phenomenon is about rising Blood Glucose for no reason as this happens in the morning. What actually happens is when you wake from your wonderful sleep, What do you do? You S-T-R-E-A-C-H ! ! ! that wakes up the liver that has glucodin as that goes to your body that needs energy. So we may decide to skip breakfast witch is the most important meal of your day. For Type 1's we can do the correction and be OK (Well at least I do) To many who find this so annoying so I guess mine is not so bad. :D
Indeed. That's exactly what happens to me. I wake up every couple of hours and really feel like stretching.

I'm going to give the high protein bedtime snack a shot.
 

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Thanks for the info about DP...started taking a tablespoon of natural peanut butter and one of cottage cheese just before bed.Now my morning blood test is around 100 as opposed to 135. Thanks for the tip
 

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I too am experience this phenomenon I go to bed with a level of 116, or lower, a little concerned that I might wake with way too low level. But upon testing without any intake for seven to eight hours my level is 160 to 190. This is distressing, will have to try the protein late night snack. Peanut butter though is full of sugar, or at least it feels that way.

What about a late night pee and doing a little bit of exercise? To wake the liver?
 

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Night time highs

I too am experience this phenomenon I go to bed with a level of 116, or lower, a little concerned that I might wake with way too low level. But upon testing without any intake for seven to eight hours my level is 160 to 190. This is distressing, will have to try the protein late night snack. Peanut butter though is full of sugar, or at least it feels that way.

What about a late night pee and doing a little bit of exercise? To wake the liver?
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You can buy peanut butter without sugar. There are jars of it on the same counter with Jif and Skippy. Smuckers makes it . There are other sugar free brands too.

If you exercise without carbs in your body then your liver can dump a large amount of carbs into your system. You need carbs in you to have the energy to exercise. Your liver will supply those carbs if you have not eaten before exercising. It gives you more than you need in most situations. That could make your blood sugar very high. I exercise very soon after a meal or snack. I would never exercise before bedtime since I do not eat anything late in the evening. Eating then does me more harm than good. We are all different.
 

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Welcome JD - nice to meet you! I hope you'll post a message in our Introductions forum to tell us more about yourself.

I've had a little dawn phenomenon myself, but a snack before bed seems to help a lot. Last night I was 99 before bed, I ate an ounce of dark unsweetened chocolate & waken with 96 this morning. That felt like a real triumph!
 

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Dawn phenomenon in the middle of the day?

If I read this thread correctly, a high pre-lunch reading could be caused by the same "dawn phenomenon". If I don't eat from 5AM until checking my BS at around 11:30, could this explain the high readings? Would a protein snack at say 8:30AM help to drop the pre-lunch number? Looking for some advice. . . . Thanks!
 

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If I read this thread correctly, a high pre-lunch reading could be caused by the same "dawn phenomenon". If I don't eat from 5AM until checking my BS at around 11:30, could this explain the high readings?
Absolutely! I experience a liver-dump after ~4hrs without food. Even faster if I've done any high-intensity exercise within 24 hours.

Would a protein snack at say 8:30AM help to drop the pre-lunch number? Looking for some advice. . . . Thanks!
Quite possibly, it works for me. I usually have 6 meals per day, spaced about 3 to 3.5 hours apart.

My first three meals all have protein/fat/carbs in them, 20-25g of total carbs per meal. My last three reduce the carbs now considerably.

Remember, all of us are different, and respond differently ... eat/test to your meter to find out what is best for you. :)
 

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I am one who gets an extended dawn phenomenom throughout the day. At first I thought it was due to exercise because I usually exercise in the morning. So I switched exercise and still got it. Then I thought it was due to coffee, so I stopped coffee for a few months and still got it. Then I decided to do an all day fast. My bgs continued to climb until about 2 pm and then they stabalised and started to fall. Most type 2's have inadequate insulin production. Our pancreas produces glucagon and signals liver to convert store glycogen into glucose. This is kind of the same thing that happens when we are sleeping but then it is stress hormones that signal liver to add glucose to wake us up. In a normal person your pancreas won't produce glucagon unless we fall into the 70's but a lot of us have mixed up siganaling which accounts for this.
 

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i go to bed with a level of 146 and wake up with 108...it's in the pre-diabetic category. no matter what i eat or don't eat, it keeps increasing.... before those numbers were much lower. its so frustrating.
 

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i go to bed with a level of 146 and wake up with 108...it's in the pre-diabetic category. no matter what i eat or don't eat, it keeps increasing.... before those numbers were much lower. its so frustrating.
In your introductory post, Rocky, you mentioned that "after not eating even breakfast cuz sometimes i dont have time... my glucose is suppose to go down". Where did you learn that it's supposed to go down? Whoever taught you that was sadly mistaken and knows nothing about diabetes.

You've also mentioned eating a Subway sandwich for lunch. In answer to the paradox that no matter "what you eat or don't eat, you level keeps increasing", what happens is this: even though you don't eat, you body still needs fuel. When your system realizes you haven't eaten, your liver takes over & begins to secrete glucose into your blood stream, elevating your blood sugar levels. We call this a liver dump, and it's a major component of the dawn phenomenon which is under discussion in this thread.

Now the reason that your levels increase when you DO eat, is because you aren't watching what you eat. Subway may be a halfway decent place to eat, but you cannot eat the SANDWICHES. The bread is what raises your levels, so eat the filling & leave the bread/flatbread/buns on the plate. Our bodies do not need carbs, and I explained this in response to you in another thread.
 

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For some reason over the last few months my regular as clockwork daily DP liver dump has stopped. It is something I thought I could not have any effect over as it happened every day no matter what I ate or how much or little I exercised.

What changed? I lost another 5 kilos. My target weight was 85 kilos (I'm 6'1") and as part of getting my BG under control I reached 88Kilos over a steady six months. I sat at that weight for about a year and every day I experienced the dawn phenomenon. I'm now 83Kilos and the DP has simply stopped happening.

My diet is the same if a little more consistant(Almost nothing with flour in it, low carb and high protein, very regular meals and snacks of fruit and nuts), my exercise is the same Regular and consistant) and my stress levels are the same (moderately high but kind of enjoyable).

What does this mean? Nothing to anyone but me as we are all different but I thought I'd share. :cool:
 

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All I have to say about that is . . . . .

Hallelujah!!!! :D :D :D

For some reason over the last few months my regular as clockwork daily DP liver dump has stopped. It is something I thought I could not have any effect over as it happened every day no matter what I ate or how much or little I exercised.

What changed? I lost another 5 kilos. My target weight was 85 kilos (I'm 6'1") and as part of getting my BG under control I reached 88Kilos over a steady six months. I sat at that weight for about a year and every day I experienced the dawn phenomenon. I'm now 83Kilos and the DP has simply stopped happening.

My diet is the same if a little more consistant(Almost nothing with flour in it, low carb and high protein, very regular meals and snacks of fruit and nuts), my exercise is the same Regular and consistant) and my stress levels are the same (moderately high but kind of enjoyable).

What does this mean? Nothing to anyone but me as we are all different but I thought I'd share. :cool:
 
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