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Discussion Starter · #21 ·
[[there still is that testing protocol issue (clean hands and known-good strips) and
  • I didn't see a pre-meal measurement. You could have been rolling into dinner at 90 or 115 or so or come in higher from something else (after all, it took several hours for your BG to come down to 139).]]
Yup- cleanign hands now, and i kept forgetting pre meal testing, but have done a couple of pre meals- one tonight infact-

The following will be interesting: premeal dinner was 130. Dinner was 2 Macdonalds Cheese Burgers, and that was all. 2 hours after the meal it was 158. I was curious about the candies, so i again ate 6 packets of them. I tested exactly 1 hour after, and it was 219. I tested again at 2 hours after and it was 161

This morning, my waking bs was 100- w2hich is also my premeal reading as i eat almost immediately upon waking. Interestringly, i ate a small bowl of greek yogurt before i went to bed to see if it woudl help bs in morning- which i will do again tonight. Anyways- I took my whey drink, with q tablespoon of matodextrin for the calories, plus some metamucil. Drank that down, and almost immediately i started getting shaky, weak, sweaty and dizzy- Got diarrhea (which i get often with the iliostomy anyways-) right off quick- and so after that settled enough, i tested my sugar after the drink- it was 229. I had to sit it out till i started feelign less dizzy- about 1/2 hour it took- then i had breakfast- I think that maltodextrin really hit me hard- so I'm gonna try just the whey drink and metamucil tomorrow morning- see what happens then- if it turns out hte maltodextrin was the culprit- which i suspect it might be, I'll just throw the rest out- and try to get calories somehow else-

Ok, so I Tested after breakfast, 2 hours after- and bs was 133- Breakfast again was a soda, and ham sandwich as usual- I woudl think the soda would really push the bs up- perhaps it does- gonna have to test blood at 1 hour after breakfast too to find out- but the 2 hour reading looked good-ish i guess?

[[But the way to know that is to measure your BG just before you eat and then at the 1 and 2 hour intervals after that (even 3 hours if the second hour total is still kind of high). That's how you know what you can eat and how many carbs at a sitting are too much.]]

I think that is what I'm going to have to start doing- keeping charts, eliminating certain foods- restricting others- Ever since i did the elemental diet- i haven't had much time hwere i haven't been dizzy, weak- etc- even now- hard to even think- something definitely is going on, and i fear the diet i did made it worse-
 

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Discussion Starter · #22 ·
oh, and I'm the one who should thank you for your patience- This stuff is all new to me- gonna have to learn how to make charts to eliminate and add as needed- I gotta look into 'Short Bowel' syndrome too think as my duodenum has been kinda bypassed a bit with the ruex-n Y operation- and i suspect that might plays into it soemhow, rushing stuff through the system- dumping sugars quickly- etc- I don't know though- not real familiar with it-
 

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Thanks. One of the things that got me through the early period of finding out what I could and could not eat any more was to consider myself the subject of a science experiment. I got a STEM degree in college so I'm already inclined to think that way. But it made cycling through variations and all the measurement worthwhile to me. I got information I could act on for myself.

something definitely is going on, and i fear the diet i did made it worse
I looked up maltodextrin as a food; my (usually reliable) source indicates that a teaspoon of maltodextrin has 4 grams (and 15 calories, so I suspect you're using more if you're trying to add calories). An ounce of maltodextrin has 27 grams of carbs. On top of 50-55 grams of carbs for the orange soda and how much of that glucose is treated by saliva and stomach fluids (especially if it all shows up at once), you're looking at a pretty big carb load. (This still fits with the sip-all-night mode that doesn't seem to affect BG as much.)

You certainly seem to be finding a limit in how many grams of carbs your body can handle at one time. Diabetics find that, too. The quality and quantity make a difference (simple vs. complex carbohydrates) along with what's eaten (fat blunts an immediate reaction to simple sugars, etc.). One experiment you might try is to see if there's a difference in your BG level if you space breakfast over an hour or so and if you kind of chug down the same foods. Don't forget, also, that we know inflammation and infection can alter BG readings, so if you're not feeling well some morning or allergies are kicking in, your numbers may show that.

It's possible (again, not a medic and I didn't stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night [old joke]) that your body's ability to either supply or use insulin is diminishing and the (relatively) high glucose content of the elemental diet figuratively floored the accelerator on an engine that was already running on fewer cylinders. Just an explanation; no judgement intended.

Let's keep charting what works and what doesn't; that can help uncover a pattern.
 

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Discussion Starter · #24 ·
Thanks, yep- i agree abotu the diet- Before the diet- i probably didn't recognize the lesser swings in dizziness, weakness- then once o nthe diet- it really amlified what was already happening-

I'll try eating breakfast and dinner over the course of one hour, see if that makes a diff- then test 1 hour after last bite, then at 2 hours too- see if that doesn't calm down the swings- This AM i only had whey and metamucil- didn't experience the swing before breakfast- my waking BG was 100 again- (ate yogurt again last night)- then i ate breakfast, and tested 1 hour after i started eating- BG was 167. Then at 2 hours it was 144. So it seems that it is taking awhiel for my BG to drop after the spikes rom eating- but it was pretty close to normal reading today- (the 2 hour reading that is). So apparently the whey and metamucil isn't affecting me negatively, and it must have been the maltodextrin that was doing it- Candies too really spike my sugar- it seems to do it almost immediately too- which I'm wondering if the short bowel syndrome might be causing it if that's what i have or not i don't know- probably- given my operations on stomach- or if dumping syndrome makes it speed into system somehow? I dunno- maybe sugar just acts that way period-

anyways- I'll eat dinner tonight spread out and do like you suggested- see what kinds of readings i'll get- should be interesting-

You mentioned fats blunting immediate sugar reactions, Would coconut oil fats do that? MCT oil i think is the name of the oil i took awhile back?
 

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I dunno- maybe sugar just acts that way period
Oh, yeah. My dad was an insulin-dependent diabetic and he was advised to always carry a roll of Lifesavers (or some other hard candy) with him in case of a hypo. Hard candy is nothing but sugar. When he could feel the low coming on, he sometimes chose a chocolate bar that would be a treat for him ('cuz he never saw them otherwise). Chocolate adds some fat to the sugar. But when your BG is dangerously low you don't want to mess around with anything delaying the sugar.

You mentioned fats blunting immediate sugar reactions, Would coconut oil fats do that? MCT oil i think is the name of the oil i took awhile back?
Yes. Any oil or fat -- coconut oil, MCT oil, olive oil, butter, lard, animal fat (chicken skin or fish oil). But it's not that it interacts with the glucose; it just gives your stomach more to work on so it doesn't just respond to a rush of carbs. Sometimes you can take in so many carbs at once that your body goes into high gear to meet the demand; some diabetics' bodies can't switch off the insulin flow when it should, resulting in BG that bounces up and down.
 

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Discussion Starter · #26 ·
Yeah, I';m not seeing low BG- but- the weird thing is, several times now, glucose tablets have gotten me out of the real bad dizziness, sweating, shaking feeling like gonna pass out- it would take 4 sometimes 5 tablets sometimes- but i would start feeling better in about 1/2 hr-45 minutes- i don't understand why that is unless like you say it's false hypo- I'll forego the oil- thanks for the advice on that-
 

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For what it's worth, there are 3 grams of carbs in every tablespoon of worcestershire sauce
Still learning. This is right up there with the day I found out that there were carbs in soy sauce! I used to use it more liberally than I do now.
The first thing my non-diabetic spouse says when I have an unexpected spike is "How many carbs are in (insert food item) anyway"
 

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I'll forego the oil- thanks for the advice on that
Well, let me amend that advice a little.

If someone is responding to a (true) hypoglycemic episode, they don't want anything getting in the way of absorbing that glucose.

If someone is eating a meal, though, eating fat (oil, butter, whatever) as part of the meal will slow the body's insulin response to whatever carbohydrates are eaten at the same time. Kind of the same mechanism that lets you slowly sip a can of soda without a major impact on your BG compared to slugging down the whole can at once.
 

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Discussion Starter · #29 ·
ok thanks, that makes sense- with hypo, you don;t wanna suppress or slow rather, a rise in blood sugar during the hypo episode- so things that suppress or slow sugar might not be good for true hypo cases? My BG was higher this morning, 128, despite eating yogurt right before bed- woke up hot- but not feeling well today either- so that could have something to do with it- wish there was something that could help stabilize BG in both directions, low and high- but i guess diet is how to do that- trial and error-
 

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True hypos, when BG levels are falling below normal, call for glucose in a rapidly-absorbed form, to bring them back up. The tricky bit there is to not overcompensate with tons of glucose that then calls for a massive insulin response which then ... rinse and repeat. 😕

Here, we do feel diet is the best way to stabiiize BG; meds probably can do that decently well, but at what cost in dollars, side effects, and long-term issues? Food is highly controllable -- and more fun to eat than medicine!
 

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Discussion Starter · #31 ·
here's a weird one- I bought some Genultimate test strips because they are like 1/3 the price of the one touch ultra 2 strips. The code o n them is different than the ultra strips- so i recoded my meter to 4 for the genultimate- the ultra is code 25- i compared readings, and like the one touch ultra read BG of 111. Switched to the gen strips, recoded, and the reading was 135- i did several more tests, with the Gen strips, and they are all over the place-

ok weird part- I switched back to one touch code (25) and just out of curiosity, i compared the 2 different strips without changing the code- It was almost spot on for all my tests/comparisons now- the Ultra would test say 115, and the Genultimate strips would read say 117, the results for several comparisons now are all within 4 points of each other every time- but if i change the code to what it's suppsoed to be for the Genultimate- the readings go haywire-

What's goign on? The Genultimate shouldn't be working nearly the same as the Ultra strips with the code for the ultra?
 

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What's goign on? The Genultimate shouldn't be working nearly the same as the Ultra strips with the code for the ultra?
I wouldn't expect it to, no.

But apparently the company that makes Genultimate strips has had a -- umm -- interesting history in this area. Apparently at one time it they were or had some relationship with a company called Shasta Technologies. In 2014, the FDA "found that Shasta Technologies did not have in place many of the requirements of a quality system. Without assurance of an adequate quality system, the FDA believes that the strips could report incorrect blood glucose levels ... To date, the company has been unwilling to voluntarily recall their test strips..."† I did not see a later report that they ever recalled their strips, though apparently they claimed they were changing the strips to make them more accurate. :unsure:

https://asweetlife.org/the-problem-with-generic-test-strips/

The parent of the company that now makes Genultimate strips sued the company that makes OneTouch meters in antitrust court; it seems that suit is still being litigated. The claim is that LifeScan (manufacturer) is locking out makers of third-party test strips. No clear correlation to the issue you've brought up, but interesting (to me anyway) nonetheless.

In looking at some user reviews of these strips, though, there are several complains on Amazon and elsewhere that these strips are not that accurate. How many of these users have failed to calibrate their meters properly for the different code? Hard to say; it certainly could be a consideration. I've seen people give crummy reviews to products that arrived in damaged boxes, so they're not always thinking clearly when they write their reviews. But even people who calibrated their meters for these strips report weird readings.

My guess is that the close readings you're getting are a surprising coincidence -- based on what I've been reading, I'd be quite surprised if this close numerical relationship continued through the entire vial.
 

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Discussion Starter · #33 ·
I'm still gettign very close readings- A very interesting thing happened this evening- about 3 hours after i ate, i was feeling pretty good- my 2 hour BG was a little high, but not bad- 151. Then an hour later- I had 5 packages of smarties again- just curiosu what woudl happen- I'm sitting there abotu 10 minutes after the candies, and i start to feel flushed all over- hot- and a bit shaky- so i tested- first with the genultimate strip, it was 243- i thought wow- so tried a one touch- 247- then I was gonna try again- it was like 3 minutes later, the flushed feeling was going away- and i tried again with hte genultimate- it was 140- this was 3 minutes later- I thought "This aint right" so tried with the one touch strip and sure enough- it too read 140- i did 2 more times and still read 140-

Does blood sugar go up and down so rapidly like that? I know i kinda jolted it with hte candies- but to have it drop to 140 so soon after testign at 240+ seemed odd?

anyways- the test strips are holdign hteir own with the one touch ones so far- I'll likely do side by side for the whole canister, then pick up another along with the one touch ones and try again with new batch-

Yeah i don't hold too much stock to reviews- as you say- user error seems to be prevalent sometimes- another issue could be like with my case- they program their code into their one touch for the genultimate, and it goes all wonky- like mine did- with the code of 4- but strangely when using the one touch ultimate code of 24, it reads very close- so far anyways, to the one touch strips-

I asked the company why that would be- waiting on an answer-

Thanks for looking that info up about genultimate- and for those links- good to know-
 

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Does blood sugar go up and down so rapidly like that? I know i kinda jolted it with hte candies- but to have it drop to 140 so soon after testign at 240+ seemed odd?
It can. To oversimplify a little, when you start eating all kinds of enzymes and hormones kick in to manage and extract nutrients from the food.

One of those hormones is insulin. Another is amylin, which helps slow the digestion of food so various parts of the digestion mechanism (stomach acid, insulin, the hormone that signals that you're full, etc.) can be put into balance. Another is glucagon, which manages the conversion of stored glycogen to glucose for the body's use -- kind of the opposite of insulin.

When non-diabetics eat carbohydrates (particularly simple carbohydrates, like Smarties), the pancreas gets a signal to start supplying insulin to process the carbs and it works, along with amylin, to match insulin levels with sugar levels. But in diabetics, insulin production may be slow or low or non-existent (Type 1s). If amylin production is impaired (which it frequently is in diabetics), the rapid rise in BG caused by the relative lack of insuin can allow BG to go very high before enough insulin is available to push BG levels back to (close to) normal. Add in whatever side effects may have come about with the physical changes to your stomach and intestines and it's not hard to see that there could be some issues with the body not being able to regulate itself.

In non-diabetics, BG levels go up as much as 40-80 mg/dL an hour after eating a typical meal and fall by about that amount after another hour or so. High-carb meals typically push that increase higher and delay the time it takes to return it to normal. So going from 240 to 140 is quite a drop but not hugely medically inconsistent. This indicates to me that your body still can produce enough insulin, but either it is slow to start supplying it or you may have some insulin resistance so that it takes more insulin to do what it used to do.
 
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Discussion Starter · #35 ·
ok thanks- good explanation. I'll try a few more times with he smarties- see if there is a dramatic rise then speedy drop again- just to have it on my records to give to doc when i go see her=- I'm gonna see abotu the A1C test i think- never had that done-

[[Add in whatever side effects may have come about with the physical changes to your stomach and intestines and it's not hard to see that there could be some issues with the body not being able to regulate itself]]

That's what I'm wondering- coudl just be a conglomeration of several issues together making things whackadoodle- but might just be a sugar issue alone too- hard to tell at this point-
 

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As far as the strip codes, did you by chance compare the readings with the one touch strips with code 4 in the meter. Curious if they had similar readings.
 

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Discussion Starter · #37 ·
ah good idea- no i didn't think to do that- I will try it and report back ehre- probably tonight or tomorrow- - however, twice today- the Genultimate was way off from the readings of the one touch ones- my one touch saidf my sugar was 127, while the first genultimate claiemd it was 138- I tried another genultimate right away, and the second one read 152- (I then tried a third, and it read 126) - So i dn't think I'm gonna trust them- they were doign fien or a coupel days- but now all of a sudden are readign wrong- I will probably just use one touch ones from now on- i don't know if the genultimate beign open for a few days is causing hte issue? Or if they just aren't consistent overall

Also- Genultimate site hasn't responded back yet to my inquiry abotu the strips and code issue-
 

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twice today- the Genultimate was way off from the readings of the one touch ones- my one touch saidf my sugar was 127, while the first genultimate claiemd it was 138- I tried another genultimate right away, and the second one read 152- (I then tried a third, and it read 126) -
Don't forget -- blood is not homogeneous. Successive blood drops within seconds of each other can have different results. And the meter can be off as much as 15% in either direction and still be considered "accurate". It likely is not that far off, but there is some room. 127 to 138 is only 8%.

i don't know if the genultimate beign open for a few days is causing hte issue? Or if they just aren't consistent overall
Unless you're in a tropical area without air conditioning or out camping in the cold, strips should manage at most temperatures at which humans feel comfortable. However, they do best in a closed vial, not sitting out on a bathroom counter or such (not saying you're doing that, but people do...).

And it is possible that strips can encounter unfriendly storage conditions along their way from the factory or distributor to you. Places that sell name-brand strips (like OneTouch's) really really cheap sometimes are getting them from who-knows-where and may not care so much about storing strips or shipping them under appropriate conditions.
 

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Discussion Starter · #39 ·
yeah i leave them right in the container- i just wondered if they were as you said handled not great or something and once opened losing accuracy as a result? I dunno if they are off or not- I bought what i thought was soem cotnrol fluid for the one touch ultra- but i didn't read the writing well, and spaced it- it was for the one touch verio- don't know if it makes a diff? Both the genultimate and one touch though read in the range- the one touch read about 142 (range = 121-162 I think it is), the genultimate was in range at 160 (the genultimate's range was wider between 121-182)

Mbuster: I tried settign hte meter to code for for both this time, and the readings for both were kind of close- one read 182, (The genultimate), and the one touch read 165- I put the code back to 25 and did both again ,and they were in that same ballpark 187 for the genultimate, and 171 for the one touch.
 

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Sounds like that bottle of genultimate strips code must be mis-labeled. From what itissteve found out and posted about earlier, I wouldn't get any more after those are gone. I wouldn't toss out what is left though, What you have may serve you well enough to tell which way your BG is trending before and after meals/snacks as long as you don't keep switching back and forth between brands of strips. No strips/meters are completely accurate so the best we can do is hope for consistency in our readings. Taking multiple readings from the same meter would drive one batty, much less switching meters/strips. 171 and 187 would be within 10% of each other.
 
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