[Irene]

Hi,

I hurt my back a week ago, and it has been improving slowly but it certainly is painful. I would like to take something, but NSAIDs are out for me due to drug interaction with another drug I take (not a diabetic one). I was told by the hospital pharmacist some time ago that a baby aspirin is OK - which i tried and is really weak. "Tylenol" is listed as an "alternative". Does anyone know if it's safe with Metformin and Glyclazide? I just hope it's ok with the other drugs too and does not interfere with bg's.

Thanks to anyone who has had to take OTC pain pills- experience.

 

[ColaJim]

Note: baby aspirin is an NSAID

As I understand it no analgesic is "safe" for long term (chronic) use. Analgesics corrupt your body's nerve signaling and your body will either fight it or eventually ignore it. There are risks, you have to take your chances or live with the pain.

When I was using 4 x 325 mg of aspirin years ago to reduce my arthritic pain I mixed it with sodium bicarbonate ( homemade alkaseltzer ) to reduce perforation of my guts. But a doctor told me that I bleed too much because it thinned my blood too much.

A few years later when my pain from arthritis was extremely sever (better off dead), i tried DMSO externally. It worked somewhat but not good enough so I tried it internally (strongly not advised) and it worked, my resting arthritic pain was gone! I no longer required any med to control resting arthritic pain because the pain was no longer there. Now I could at least rest and sleep!

I now use magnetic pulsing (like The Magnetic Pulser by SOTA) to control resting arthritic pain.

The only other med that I use for extreme pain (better off dead) is Vicodin (hydrocodone/apap 7.5/750) for very short term use, long term use will kill you.

I have no means of controlling active arthritic pain (like that induced when walking).

I still use Glucosamine, Chondroitin, & MSM to help rebuild my knees. I have heard that excessive use of Glucosamine can itself cause diabetes.

Others have mentioned that they have used Morphine Sulfate, I know nothing of this med.

Good Luck

ColaJim

Hi,

I hurt my back a week ago, and it has been improving slowly but it certainly is painful. I would like to take something, but NSAIDs are out for me due to drug interaction with another drug I take (not a diabetic one). I was told by the hospital pharmacist some time ago that a baby aspirin is OK - which i tried and is really weak. "Tylenol" is listed as an "alternative". Does anyone know if it's safe with Metformin and Glyclazide? I just hope it's ok with the other drugs too and does not interfere with bg's.

Thanks to anyone who has had to take OTC pain pills- experience.

 

[Irene]

As I understand it no analgesic is "safe" for long term (chronic) use. Analgesics corrupt your body's nerve signaling and your body will either fight it or eventually ignore it. There are risks, you have to take your chances or live with the pain.

Hi ColaJim,

Drug interactions should be a field of medicine in itself these days; yup you gotta know which ones to take together without getting sicker. But sometimes the pain is bad enough to take some risk. I know a relative of mine with arthritis that must take Tylenol at least and cortisol at most-- otherwise life is unbearable.

When I was using 4 x 325 mg of aspirin years ago to reduce my arthritic pain I mixed it with sodium bicarbonate ( homemade alkaseltzer ) to reduce perforation of my guts. But a doctor told me that I bleed too much because it thinned my blood too much.

Personally, i think aspirin is overrated as an anelgesic and certainly a bleeder -- you don't want to take that with ulcers or coumadin for example.

A few years later when my pain from arthritis was extremely sever (better off dead), i tried DMSO externally. It worked somewhat but not good enough so I tried it internally (strongly not advised) and it worked, my resting arthritic pain was gone! I no longer required any med to control resting arthritic pain because the pain was no longer there. Now I could at least rest and sleep!

What is DMSO?

I now use magnetic pulsing (like a Sota Pulser) to control resting arthritic pain.

Again, i don't about these mechanical options but i will mention it to my friend with arthritis.

The only other med that I use for extreme pain (better off dead) is Vicodin (hydrocodone/apap 7.5/750) for very short term use, long term use will kill you.

Is this a prescription drug?

I have no means of controlling active arthritic pain (like that induced when walking).

I still use Glucosamine, Chondroitin, & MSM to help rebuild my knees. I have heard that excessive use of Glucosamine can itself cause diabetes.

Poor thing.

Others have mentioned that they have used Morphine Sulfate, I know nothing of this med.

I think the opiates should become legal. They have so many uses and are incomparabe to any other drug. You don't have to get addicted if it is a short term or intermittent use for pain, and other ailments.

BTW, I just took 500mg Tylenol for my back. Yup it worked. But I don't think i can take to much because of a bit of an interaction with one of my non-diabetic drugs -- but no worse that some NSAIDs so it may be liver metabolism. I get a bit of inability to take a deep breath -- whatever that is or means, medically.

If the pain gets really bad, which i hope will not with time, it is an option. Fortunately I can sleep OK.

tx for your reply.

You know there was a time before the 50s when all the good drugs were OTC.

 

[ColaJim]

Not to be impolite, but if interested, google it, I can't do all your home work for you. :brick:

Hi ColaJim,

Drug interactions should be a field of medicine in itself these days; yup you gotta know which ones to take together without getting sicker. But sometimes the pain is bad enough to take some risk. I know a relative of mine with arthritis that must take Tylenol at least and cortisol at most-- otherwise life is unbearable.




Personally, i think aspirin is overrated as an anelgesic and certainly a bleeder -- you don't want to take that with ulcers or coumadin for example.





What is DMSO?



Again, i don't about these mechanical options but i will mention it to my friend with arthritis.




Is this a prescription drug?




Poor thing.




I think the opiates should become legal. They have so many uses and are incomparabe to any other drug. You don't have to get addicted if it is a short term or intermittent use for pain, and other ailments.

BTW, I just took 500mg Tylenol for my back. Yup it worked. But I don't think i can take to much because of a bit of an interaction with one of my non-diabetic drugs -- but no worse that some NSAIDs so it may be liver metabolism. I get a bit of inability to take a deep breath -- whatever that is or means, medically.

If the pain gets really bad, which i hope will not with time, it is an option. Fortunately I can sleep OK.

tx for your reply.

You know there was a time before the 50s when all the good drugs were OTC.

 

[moon]

I also use Vicodin ES for pain, and have for many years. I use about 1/10th of what is prescribed for me, and have not wavered from this during the years I've needed it. Yes, it's prescription, and being an opiate highly addictive.

When I start a new med, I always input all my meds into an online checker - here's one: Drug Interactions Checker | Drugs.com - to check for interactions, but also always ask my pharmacist. A good pharmacist is golden in this, and knows far more than one's regular doc since it is, after all, what they do.

The drug interaction site will sometimes come up with contraindications that aren't common, but a pharmacist is the best person to help sort all that out.

 

[ColaJim]

moon

moon:

I was referring to the Acetaminophen rotting out your guts if taken a lot over your life time, not the Hydrocodone.
Vicodin ES (Hydrocodone Bitartrate and Acetaminophen)

I also use Vicodin ES for pain, and have for many years. I use about 1/10th of what is prescribed for me, and have not wavered from this during the years I've needed it. Yes, it's prescription, and being an opiate highly addictive.

When I start a new med, I always input all my meds into an online checker - here's one: Drug Interactions Checker | Drugs.com - to check for interactions, but also always ask my pharmacist. A good pharmacist is golden in this, and knows far more than one's regular doc since it is, after all, what they do.

The drug interaction site will sometimes come up with contraindications that aren't common, but a pharmacist is the best person to help sort all that out.

 

[Irene]

Why would Acetominophen rot out your guts ColaJim? Anyway, i do not plan to take it for long term at all as i do see an improvement in my back every day. This is the first time i took it.

"Drugs have taught an entire generation of American kids the metric system."
~P.J. O'Rourke

 

[Patdart]

Jim, are you sure you are talking about Acetaminophen or aspirin 'rotting out your guts'? Aspirin does have some disadvantages for some people and their stomach linings, but never heard of that with Tylenol products.

 

[ColaJim]

perhaps I should have said "it may destroy your liver and kidneys"

I have heard on the net that there seems to be a life time limit in the use of acetaminophen.

"This means that you are twice as likely to end up on dialysis if you take between 1000 and 4999 Tylenol or acetaminophen pills during your entire lifetime!. That's slightly over ten bottles of pills. Over your lifetime!"

http://diabetesupdate.blogspot.com/2007/03/more-evidence-that-common-over-counter.html

http://www.lef.org/protocols/appendix/otc_toxicity_01.htm

Acetaminophen (Tylenol) Poisoning

Why would Acetominophen rot out your guts ColaJim? Anyway, i do not plan to take it for long term at all as i do see an improvement in my back every day. This is the first time i took it.

"Drugs have taught an entire generation of American kids the metric system."
~P.J. O'Rourke

 

[Irene]

perhaps I should have said "it may destroy your liver"

I have heard on the net that there seems to be a life time limit in the use of acetaminophen.


Acetaminophen (Tylenol) Poisoning

This is true -- infact the bottle warns of people with liver or kidney problems; but there are variables such as "dose", how long it is taken, if you have a liver or kidney problems, if you drink alcohol, etc.

All drugs are metabolized by the liver to some extent, with the exception of some that go straight through the kidney

Like aspirin, there are as many lawsuits with Tylenol for adverse effects.
This is a pharmaceutical case that the FDA might have some information on.

 

[ColaJim]

Irene,

Irene, please reread my last post, I added to it instead of making a new post.

This is true -- infact the bottle warns of people with liver or kidney problems; but there are variables such as "dose", how long it is taken, if you have a liver or kidney problems, if you drink alcohol, etc.

All drugs are metabolized by the liver to some extent, with the exception of some that go straight through the kidney

Like aspirin, there are as many lawsuits with Tylenol for adverse effects.
This is a pharmaceutical case that the FDA might have some information on.

 

[Irene]

eMedicine describes the danger of Tylenor poisoning under circumstances very much like the ones I suggested, no?

Acetaminophen (Tylenol) Poisoning

 

[moon]

moon:

I was referring to the Acetaminophen rotting out your guts if taken a lot over your life time, not the Hydrocodone.
Vicodin ES (Hydrocodone Bitartrate and Acetaminophen)

The acetaminophen in a vicodin approximates the amount in a single Tylenol. It would be hard to take enough vicodin (unless one abused it or was an addict) to contribute to a serious acetaminophen issue, imho of course. The hydrocodone would get you first.

For example, I take 1/2 a Vicodin ES when in severe pain which doesn't get rid of the pain but takes the knife's tip off. That's roughly equivalent to 1/2 a Tylenol. Far as I'm concerned, I'm not

I also take a low dose NSAID (voltaren) every day because if I don't my hips pretty much keep me from walking or sleeping. Spoke to my rheumatologist about my concerns and he said the dosage I'm taking is low enough that I shouldn't be concerned. Does that mean it couldn't cause me gastric distress/bleeding or other nasties in the long run? No. But we ultimately have to look at trade-offs, quality of life, and odds. He's a Stanford guy, head of rheumatology, and while hardly God, does keep up and is mega-smart.

They're vexing decisions for sure.

 

[ColaJim]

moon

Well, in that I have used OTC pain relievers in excess to control my arthritic pain for over 20 years, I am diabetic, and my kidneys are failing, I have to live in pain or use magnetic pulsing to relieve that pain. Magnetic Pulsers are expensive up front, are not covered by insurance, and are not even recognized as existing by the AMA except for pets and experimental sever depression treatment, but they are really the only option that I have other than living in agonizing pain. Still better than being an perpetual opiate user I think, and opiates are hard to get and very expensive.

Also, the VA screwed up my digestive system pretty well by treating my arthritis with Naproxen for years.

And I don't like pleading with AMA doctors for pain relief.

PS: After reading about it on the internet, I tried using a Radio Shack High Power Video Eraser that I already had to relieve my arthritic pain in my knees and it worked pretty well!

The acetaminophen in a vicodin approximates the amount in a single Tylenol. It would be hard to take enough vicodin (unless one abused it or was an addict) to contribute to a serious acetaminophen issue, imho of course. The hydrocodone would get you first.

For example, I take 1/2 a Vicodin ES when in severe pain which doesn't get rid of the pain but takes the knife's tip off. That's roughly equivalent to 1/2 a Tylenol. Far as I'm concerned, I'm not

I also take a low dose NSAID (voltaren) every day because if I don't my hips pretty much keep me from walking or sleeping. Spoke to my rheumatologist about my concerns and he said the dosage I'm taking is low enough that I shouldn't be concerned. Does that mean it couldn't cause me gastric distress/bleeding or other nasties in the long run? No. But we ultimately have to look at trade-offs, quality of life, and odds. He's a Stanford guy, head of rheumatology, and while hardly God, does keep up and is mega-smart.

They're vexing decisions for sure.

 

[Shanny]

My reason for using NSAIDS is to reduce inflammation. I figure if whatever is inflamed can be soothed, the pain will take care of itself. If I need pain relief, I take hydrocodoneAPAP 5-500, but never more than two at once & always on the prescribed time schedule. It's a fairly mild pain killer & I thank my lucky stars I've never needed anything stronger than that.

 

[Irene]

This is a sad situation you are in ColaJim. I am sorry your kidneys are failing. That's rough. On the other hand, if you have alternatives to drugs that eases your pain, great. They do sound expensive except the ones at Radio Shack (here in Canada it now called The Source). You say that opiates are hard to get -- well, i suppose they are mostly illegal. I wonder if Oxycontin is a sister drug.

I do wish you all the best and I am sorry you have to keep searching for something to ease your pain. It sounds like you have been through a lot, maybe even a war.

Cheers and have a nice evening. Thanks for all the info. I will be vigilant with the Tylenol.
----------------------------

 

[Francois]

Hi ColaJim, I also use DMSO internally for my arthritis with huge success but the resulting odour makes it impossible to use every day. Do you perhaps have any advice to lessen the odour?

Sent from my iPad using Diabetes

 

[ColaJim]

Francois

Francois:

Due to the constant agonizing pain I was in, I was unconcerned about any smell.
And I eat garlic also without regard for other people's sensitive noses. I am not a very sociable person to begin with so garlic may be part of my personal privacy defense.

Hi ColaJim, I also use DMSO internally for my arthritis with huge success but the resulting odour makes it impossible to use every day. Do you perhaps have any advice to lessen the odour?

Sent from my iPad using Diabetes

 

[Insulation Tim]

Acetaminophen and aspirin are different animals in that acetaminophen has minimal if any anti-inflammatory actions. Aspirin does and was the drug of choice (may still be) for Rheumatoid Arthritis. If one is worried about the potential effects of aspirin on their stomach lining, purchase the Enteric coated type. This will not dissolve in an acidic media (stomach) but in and alkaline media (small intestine).

I take 2 Aleve (Naproxen) in the AM an PM for back pains. I couple that with 2 Tylenol Extended Release tablets every 8 to 12 hours. That combo works well for me.

 

[Irene]

Good tip Insulation Tim. But you know that aspirin is contraindicated for diabetics because it interfers with the blood glucose. As for inflammation, I do not know what my problem is, only that I strained in an awkward position and about 24 hrs. later started gettng back pain. I am taking 350 Acetominiphen -- no more than 1 or 2 tablets per day due t the warnings here about liver and kidney - as far as i know i have no problems with liver and kidney, but sometimes the pain is so bad that fatal hepatitis may just put me out of my misery, lol.